92 Chevy Lumina jerks, cuts off

I hope that my lengthy post will not discourage anyone from reading it and trying to help, but I was hoping giving as much detail to the problem would help...

I've had an off and on problem for two months that is driving me nuts. It all started when one time I was sitting at a light and I noticed the RPM fluctuate and the car cut off, started right back up no problems and ran fine. A couple of days later I was on the freeway and the car bucked a couple of times. I was hitting about 2000 RPM and the tach would jerk down to 500 then back up. As time went on, the frequency increased. If I'm driving it bucks/jerks but not enough to cut the car off (since I'm giving it gas). If I'm sitting at a light, of course it will make it cut off.

Ok, so I take it to my usual mechanic and ask him to give me a diagnostic for 70.00. He called a few hours later and said he noticed when he was checking the wires to the control module, that he was getting ready to unlatch one of the sets of wires and the car stopped the bucking. He determined that the wires, the connector or the module itself may have a short in it or that maybe the wire connector wasn't tightly in there socket. But it does run great now. So I picked up car up and was happy I didn't have to buy any parts. It ran 100% perfect for about 2 weeks solid. Then I noticed the bucking deal slowly started back up. Started out once a day and only for a split second and never again. As time went on, the frequency would increase to maybe a quick buck a couple of times an hour. But as long as it wasn't bucking, it would idle sooo smoothly and have great performance. Heck I could even step on the gas at 55 and make it downshift and get it to 75 in 2 seconds. The torque would whip my neck back into the seat.

So I decided to inspect the wires he spoke of. I unplugged it. The connectors were extremely clean, no dirt, corrosion and they looked brand new in fact. The wires themselve were in fine condition as well, no cracks, etc. But I hooked it back up and the car did not buck for another week. So over the next two months, it go to the point where if the car started acting up, I would just go through the motions of pushing the connectors on tighter. Even the they were on tight and they would not wiggle with any play whatsover. Not even a micro millimeter of play. There were on so snug, that I don't really think me pushing on the connectors was doing anything, but nonetheless, just going through the motion of doing it, seemed to fix the problem. So a couple of weeks later, I'm having to do this twice a day it seems like. Heck now I'm starting to really wonder if its all just coincidence and I in fact wasn't really making anything happen. Then a month ago, it got to the point where it would never buck or cut off at idle, but anytime the gas pedal is pressed, it had a chance to cut off or buck. I remember twice (different days) that it would start up everytime with absolutely no problems, but the second i put the car in gear it would cut off. I could sit in park and rev it and it behaved and reved normally. But the instant I put it in gear it would die. It was something else forcing it to die, because even if I stepped on the gas a little or a lot before I put it in gear, it would still die. But the weirder thing is at the same time, if I put it in Reverse, it does not die. I was able to hold my foot on the brake and it had full torque. I could even burn rubber on the tires. But putting it in Drive, 2 or 1 would make it cut off immediately.

At this point it's getting dangerous to drive because its too unpredictable, so I figured I'd have him go ahead and replace the module. I thought that maybe one of the pins inside the module itself could have a short or be loose. I figured while he was at it I'd have him replace the O2 sensor since I never had it replaced before. So this was about 3 weeks ago. He replaced the module and O2 sensor.

The car has ran beautifully since I've had it replaced and I patted myself on the back for getting it replaced. No bucks, no misses, nothing. Even with 180k miles on it, it still has great power and runs smooth. So its now going on week 4 and its starting back up again. Slowly but surely. A week ago I was approaching a stop sign and it just cut off without warning, but started right back up and did not do it again until 2 days later. Occassionally sitting at a light, I can sometimes see the RPM all of the sudden do this big fluctuation and cut off. If I give the gas about 300 rpm extra, its enough to keep it from cutting off. But its not all the time, its random. Like yesterday I drove it and it cut off at 3 different lights within 10 minutes. As far as I can tell, at this point, it won't buck while driving it, only at idle or very low driving range (like keeping it at 35 where you barely have to press the gas).

Any ideas? I strongly believe there is no short in the wires to the module itself. If I move them around, jiggle the connectors, etc while its running, there is never anychange to the way the car behaves.

Reply to
Mike_D
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Reply to
Iceman4757

Thanks for the reply. This sounds promising... Its just so puzzling that before I had the module changed, I could wiggle wires on the module (even though they didn't actually move) and it would run fine for a day to a week. Then after the module was changed, it stopped for

2 weeks and started back up. If the wires to the control module and the wire to the crankshaft position sensor are pretty close then this just might explain why messing with the wires would cure it for a while...

If anyone still has some input please let me know, thanks.

Reply to
Mike_D

EGR Valve/System - 90% probability Fuel pump - 10% probability

Mechanic sucks / shop not paying enough to keep experienced mechanics -

100% probability.
Reply to
dnoyeB

Thanks for all the replies people. If not for this group, I probably would be poking in the dark for a while and for my mechanic to pinpoint a short in the correct wire could have turned into many visits. Well, since having the module changed, I have never bothered moving the wires around the control module because I figured that changing it had fixed a possible short in a pin in the module. My post mentions that everytime I moved those wires, that it would run fine for a few days. Well sure enough after reading Iceman4757's post, I decided to go out and move the wires a little again, just to see if my problem stopped again. Sure enough it did. It ran with no bucks since the post (2 days). Today however, it started back up, without warning. This time, it was shutting off at every light and would not stay started unless I kept my foot on the gas a little. I was on my way to work... When I got to work, I left the engine running. I decided to do an experiment to confirm the wire Iceman spoke of could have a short in it. Instead of reaching down from the top of the engine and moving the wires to the control module around, I decided to lay on the ground and grab them from the bottom. I grabbed them and pulled them forward towards the front of the engine. Sure enough the second I did that it cut off and would not start. I got back down and pushed them back toward the transmission (attempting to make the wire move away from the metal block/frame). It started right back up and I drove it for 2 hours now with absolutely no problems.

This also explains why that one day it was cutting of in forward gears but not reverse. The reason would be that when you put the engine in Drive, the engine torques backwards. When its in reverse the engine torques forward. That very slight movement of the engine was probably enough to make the wires touch metal again. After moving them around, it wasn't cutting of in Drive or Reverse anymore.

If anyone is reading this trying to find a problem in their car and this sounds like a winner, and you are not sure which wires I have been moving around, I'll explain... If you follow the spark plug wires from the engine, they all connect into a big black box. The module is behind that. There are a few connectors to that box as well. 2 connectors on one side, and one on the other. The side with the 2 connectors (passenger side) is the wires I've been moving around :)

Reply to
Mike_D

Took it to mechanic today and explained why I believe there was a short in the crankshaft wire, he came back out within 1 minute and said "You're not gonna believe this". He pointed to a yellowish wire that was hanging between the transmission pan and the engine (on passenger side, directly behind the frame of the car by the wheels). About a full inch and a half of the insulation on the wire was gone. The wire had the metal of the transmission pan on one side and the metal of the engine on the other. The gap between both sets of metal was only about

1/4-1/2 of an inch. So if the wire only would have had to move 1/8 of an inch in any direction to make contact. He sprayed the dirt off the wires and taped it up with electrical tape (Free). Drove it home just fine. This was only an hour ago, so it's too early to say it's fixed, but I got a strong hunch it is.
Reply to
Mike_D

Nice. Though I hardly think electrical tape will last very long. Keep us posted.

Reply to
dnoyeB

No doubt, especially considering the likely oil leaks on the back (side) of that block.

Oil is no friend to electrical tape, particularly when wrapped around a greasy wire in a confined space with oily hands. I would replace (solder in and shrink-wrap) any and all compromised wires and loom them for a longer lasting repair. It's really worth the extra time.

Toyota MDT in MO

Reply to
Comboverfish

Yea, and look at another car of the same type/MY to see how that wire is run. Its probably in some convolute or something covering/protecting it. Perhaps some clamps broke off as well. Need to get that wire back to its original path.

Reply to
dnoyeB

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