A REAL FLAKEY PROBLEM

If the Lincoln is a late model 1996, this can be verified several ways, one is, does the igniton lock have a black plastic, protruding igniton lock face cap? Are the door lock keyways oblong or do they have a offset?

If the igniton does have the black plastic ignition face cap and a oblong door keyway and there is a coil antenna under the column shroud attached to the ignition cylinder then you have a PATS equipped vehicle that must be programmed with the correct transponder key otherwise the vehicle will start and run for a second or two then shut down with a blinking THEFT warning light illuminated on the dash.

If the vehicle is an early 96 then I have no clue.

Thanks for the reply, Rod.

I have the Helms/Ford manual for everything except the power-train control module (EECU). No where does it describe any type of receiving coil in the steering column. When a theft sensor is activated, it simply denies voltage to the starter and doesn't affect the fuel pump. This car will start just fine when I press in on the armature of the fuel-pump relay. What is missing is the ground signal on the fuel-pump relay.

Everything checks continuity-wise from the variable load control module back to the EECU. Evidently, there is some signal that the EECU is NOT getting and therefore, it is not telling the variable load control module to ground coil of the relay that when energized applies voltage to the fuel pump.

I do not have the book for the EECU. If I did, I could readily see what other sensor is keeping the fuel-pump relay from being energized. At least, I think I could.

This vehicle communicates via a CAN buss or I think it is a CAN buss and while the - and + data signals go to the variable load control module, I THINK it is communicating as if it didn't, the other devices that module controls would not function.

I am going to look on Ebay for a manual for this beast.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Thanks

Cass

So you're not getting the 2 second prime.. are you getting a signal for the pump to run when the starter is engaged, or when the engine is running with the relay activated by manual means?

Any trouble codes?

Are you seeing a fuel enable signal with a scan tool?

Regards, Jim

Jim,

No, the relay is not getting energized at any time. The engine will run just fine when I manually push in the armature of the relay and if I keep it held in.

As I understand it only by looking at the book, the power-train control module sends a signal (don't know if high or low) to the the variable load control module. Then, the vlcm activates the fuel-pump relay. It seems that there are two levels of fuel-pump activation. You alluded to one as being the 2 second prime and naturally, the other has to be the running level.

I suspect that something is not telling the power-train control module to send the fuel-pump activation signal to the VLCM.

Thanks for you reply and any further help.

Cass

corresponding

Jim,

No, the relay is not getting energized at any time. The engine will run just fine when I manually push in the armature of the relay and if I keep it held in.

As I understand it only by looking at the book, the power-train control module sends a signal (don't know if high or low) to the the variable load control module. Then, the vlcm activates the fuel-pump relay. It seems that there are two levels of fuel-pump activation. You alluded to one as being the 2 second prime and naturally, the other has to be the running level.

I suspect that something is not telling the power-train control module to send the fuel-pump activation signal to the VLCM.

Thanks for you reply and any further help.

Cass

corresponding

Hi Ken,

Yes, however, if the inertia switch was open, the fuel-pump wouldn't run when I manually push the armature in on the fuel-pump relay. All the inertia switch does is to cut power to the pump upon impact. When the inertia switch is involved and power is present, all of the 'up-the-line' requirements have been met to turn on the pump and the inertia switch simply breaks the connection to the pump.

I wonder what method/s the Ford/Lincoln dealer would use to find this problem other than simply changing the VLCM and/or the PTCM? If power is not fed back to those computers, there would be no way for a diagnostic computer to tell that the fuel-pump is not running.

Also, as I said in another post, I suspect that some other sensor is at fault and telling either or both of the VLCM and PTCM computers to NOT turn on the fuel-pump.

Is this group frequented by Ford/Lincoln mechanics or those independents who may know of this problem? I think that it is going to take someone that has access to the 'in-detail' diagnostic information to find this problem without just changing black boxes.

Cass

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Also, it looks like that the book (Helms/Ford) is wrong about a circuit in there dealing with the fuel-pump.

I asked Helms for updated 'errata sheets' but they said they don't have any! That is impossible for me to believe.

Cass

corresponding

Okay, so is it safe to assume that no one on here has a viable answer to this mysterious and challenging problem?

I don't want to try to beat a dead horse back to life.

Thank you.

Cass

It doesn't sound to me like a particularly mysterious or challenging problem.

It's probably safer to assume that people remember you from last winter and choose not to help. Bob

Oh yes.....

1. pull codes.. I'd be surprised if there weren't any codes. 2. review data to see if something there indicates why fuel pump not being activated. 3. Use Snap-On Modis troubleshooter module to see if this problem is mentioned there. 4. Go to ALLDATA and see what they have to say.

Without a decent scan tool and a good information source?.. might as well use a rock. Anyone want to guess how many OBD-II codes there are?

Regards,

Jim

Jim,

Number 3 is out as is number 4 as I don't have access to either.

I did build a diagnostic unit and it showed no codes but I will try it again. I am not sure that the software recognizes everything but I think it does. I will check to make sure as well as do the diagnostics again.

Thanks

Cass

'up-the-line'

Bob,

Really? I wonder if those who choose not to help recall the very beginning of all of the brouhaha? You know, the one where some folks got their feelings hurt because I simply spoke a well-known truth!

Anyway, you don't know of this problem and cannot fix it so, don't use the above as an excuse.

Cass

You little guys are still spoiling for another spanking, I see.

Look, we can go on forever over this and I don't mind doing just that. However, you and a few other shallow kids got their feelings hurt because I said that there are a lot of crooks in this industry.

Honest folks in this industry know this and will not make an issue of it. What is your excuse?

Also, you, right this minute, have the choice to continue with this and turn it into a flame-war that will not do this group any good whatsoever. If you are a mature adult with your head screwed on correctly, you will let this drop. My bet is that you won't or you wouldn't have continued to poke!

Cass

Go pound salt up your ass.Did you not learn your lesson the last time you dared to rear your ugly head in this NG?

Jim

Jim,

I came here hoping that someone could shed some light on a problem that I am having with a car. That is all that I came here for. If you want to start a fight, go find someone else.

Cass

corresponding

I took a moment and looked at the diagrams for the fuel pump circuit.. what do you see wrong with it? It looks pretty straight foward, but what I saw might be different from what you have.

From what I saw, it's a two speed pump with control signals sent from the PCM to the VLCM and also to an external fuel pump relay.. which relay are you manually actuating? Are you getting activate signals to the VLCM to turn on the low speed relay contained in the VLCM? Which pin are you monitoring?

The PCM is able to monitor the fuel pump power circuit, so you should be able to use a scantool with datastream and see what's happening.

I still think there will be codes if it's a computer problem..

Regards,

Jim