Alt. or Batt.?

Merv wrote in rec.autos.tech

Yes, an overtightened belt can ruin the bearings, and can also ruin the bearings on everything else that it is turning, such as the water pump. Your belt is too tight, you should have more like an inch of play, but not flopping around. You probably needed a new belt, which is why it was chirping.

A battery usually only lasts about 4 or 5 years. Replace the battery, replace the belt, and you should be alright. It is possible that the original problem was due to poor battery connections, and the jump and consequent tests restored enough of the connection so that it now reads ok.

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Who sells used batteries? (I ask not only because it sounds odd, but that I am considering buying a cheapo battery to have around as a backup)

What a load of crap in this thread. A belt with one inch play will slip like crazy. The quarter inch play is about right. Buying a used battery is ridiculous. A battery is usually good for 4 to 5 years. After that you are taking a chance of being stranded. Get rid of the seven year old battery. It probably has internal corrosion. Have you ever seen one explode. I have and it isn't pretty. 14.6 volts is about right for the cutoff voltage of a fully charged battery or one that isn't taking a charge....

check the yellow pages for battery shops in your area. there is one in the idustrial park near where I live.

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used batteries can be tested to see how much life is left in them

The first battery in my car lasted 10 years. I live in Ottawa, the second coldest nation's captial on the planet. The used battery that replaced it has lasted 5 years with no sign of quitting. I put it on the charger for 3-4 hous once a month during winter. I own two battery chargers purchased second hand at different times for low prices. I try to remember to plug in the block heater on cold days half an hour before starting the engine.

I don't condone using scare tactics to sell anything. Advertising is wonderful. First you create the anxiety. Then you relieve it.

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I agree totally about the play. Buy a good belt tension guage and use it, and you will be surprised how tight a belt is that is tightened at the manufacturers recommended spec. Loose belts wear out like crazy and just get looser, faster. If you have a V-belt in a car that is chirping then it's too loose, period. If you have a serpentine belt than if that is chirping, your automatic tensioner is shot, not uncommon.

As for the battery though I agree somewhat about discarding it at 7 years but not for the reason cited. Lead Acid batteries kept still at room temperature can last up to 10 years if put on the right electronic charging, I've seen it on large UPSs. But car batteries are subject to temp extremes and vibration which are pretty hard on them.

Batteries explode because they get overcharged or fast charged too fast and they heat up too hot. Batteries don't "internally corrode" they sulfate with age. A 7 year old car battery is going to have significant sulfation and there's a good chance too that enough plate material has fallen to the bottom of the battery as to short or partially short out one or more cells. These typically work fine in 70 degree weather to start the car, but when a hot spell comes or a cold snap, they die. Another common one with old batteries is they will have enough energy to turnover the engine 2-3 revolutions which is enough to start an engine in good tune, but you get a batch of bad gas or some such that makes the car a hard starter temporairly, and the battery will fall over.

However, any decent battery place will have a battery test device, and not one of the crap lightbulb on a string ones, they will have an electronic job that will load test and measure the discharge curve, and the internal resistance. These can tell far better than a rule of thumb if the battery needs to be replaced.

Ted

Okay thanks, I was thinking the battery is getting old as well, and was thinking of replacing it. As for the belt the book says 1/2 inch for a span of 12 inches and 1/4 inch for a span from 7 to 10 inches. So anyway I guess I will change the belt and the battery and hope that is it. Cause I think Ted is right in saying it will start the car one or two times but would be hard pressed after that. As for used batteries what do they do? I think all they do is use a chemical cleaning fluid with ultrasonics to clean the lead, then add new acid. How good is that if they don't replace the connections to the lead plates. Are they on Industrial avenue? A new one is like 70 bucks.

I honestly don't know but I don't think they do anything except test and charge. The batteries probably come of cars that have be in an accident and written off, like so many other used car parts. That's where rebuilt engines come from. I asked a guy who rebuilds engines about this and he says they never rebuild an engine which has more than 40,000 km on it as it is too risky. So all those terrible auto accident statistics is what gives us all those cheap used car parts. :)

that depends on which city you live in. if you are in the west end of Ottawa the shop where I bought my used battery is Total Battery in the industrial park off Merivale Road.

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I used the guide in the Haynes manual. The play is different for a new belt and a belt already in use. I would tighten the belt until the chirping stops. If its chirping (slipping) its a loose belt. If its squeeling its a worn bearing. When I do any engine work that requires removing the belt I scratched a mark on the alternator bracket so I know where to reposition it.

batteries go into supended hibernation in cold weather and do not discharge as fast as at room temp. In my ignorance I brought the battery inside the first winter I did not drive the car and it discharged slowly in my basement. I should have left it on the car. :)

Of course its the cold starts that discharge the battery in winter. I did buy a battery warmer, a sort of heating pad for car batteries, for a buck at a garage sale but have never installed it. Anybody know what effect a battery warmer has on battery life? I could plug it in half an hour before staring the car on cold days when I plug in the block heater.

I suspect battery life depends on how the car is used. Since I only commuted with my car for the first 5 of its 15 year life to date battery demand has probably been lower than average.

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Woody wrote in rec.autos.tech

I will agree that one inch is too much, but that depends upon the span. A quarter inch is quite tight, and unless it is checked where the pulleys are quite close together, it is too tight. Besides, how much pressure do you put on a belt to test tension?

How about a 1 or 2 year old battery? If you are strapped for cash, and have an old car that may not last more than a year or so, why put an expensive battery in it?

One man's opinions and the odd guess, worth what you paid if your connect time is cheap:

(a) You've gotten your money's worth out of the battery. Fortunately, you've caught it as it possibly shows symptoms rather than upon its demise. (In fact, I'd say that the life you've gotten out of it, nearly twice what most people do, says good things about your maintenance and driving habits and the state of your charging system.)

Voltage alone is not a good test of a battery's health (unless of course it's about one cell's worth too low) but I'm not sure what to think about how much it goes down and how fast in your headlight test.

(b) Here is some information on how to test a battery (amid other topics) if you don't want to just preventively replace it:

An interesting tidbit is that, for the most part, heat killsbatteries and cold decreases their starting power just when starting is the hardest. (And, I might add, when a flat battery is most damnable.)

(c) Winter, when you find yourself slogging through slow traffic with wipers, heater or defroster, and headlights going full blast, means a slower rate of battery charging.

(d) Overtightened belts have caused hardening of the bushings in many an alternator. Some mechanics really cherish Dad's 6' pry bar from his days as a gandy dancer during the Depression, I guess. You can buy a tool to measure rather than guess at belt tension, and find specs in the service manual. If doing it by the TLAR (That Looks About Right) method, which I confess to usually doing on belts without automatic tensioners, make them a bit tighter than will cause squeal with a heavy load on the driven accessory.

There is a liquid or aerosol product called "belt dressing" but I reckon it to be a relic of a bygone era when a belt was an expensive and hard to get thing whereas time was cheap. It also smells like something that's liable to damage paint.

(f) How old is your belt and how long has it been squealing? You might want to put on a new one and keep the old one under the spare tire for emergencies.

(g) Your alternator is probably fine, if it isn't making noises. Seems to be putting out the right voltage under the right circumstances, eh? This is good, because the last Toyota alternator I bought was rather spendy. My impression, though, is that Toyota puts good design and build quality into those parts that are closely related to actually making the car go, and last a long time.

Best of luck,

--Joe