Automatic vs. Manual transmission

you're stuck in a time warp dude - it's 2011.

er, how many clutches are there in a traditional auto? how many hydraulic systems?

yeah, atf is not special...

as opposed to an hydraulic analog computer actuating /how/ many hydraulic servos?

one manufacturer cutting corners doesn't mean the concept is bad.

how about pausing to check your facts?

If that's the case, it sounds awful similar to the VW/Audi DSG transmissions. Wonder who's licensing what from whom? Additionally that would imply that the choice of transmission in that case would pretty much come down to personal preference, although theoretically the auto might be able to be "programmed" for better economy than the average stickshift driver, but the extra weight/complexity of the DSG setup would slightly reduce economy.

nate

if it's the dry clutch variant, there's no complexity that can impact economy vs. a stick - there are no hydraulic pumps.

The unit will still be physically heavier than a conventional stickshift w/ the same number of gears and ratios, that's what I meant.

nate

it's not significantly though. the only real difference is the solenoid pack, and you net that out against the weight savings from things like clutch pedals, linkages, and even the gearsets which now don't need the same strength of synchro since the computer, with it's fly-by-wire throttle control, always gets the rev matching right.

WHOA. Holy smokes, thank you for that, Cap'n Obvious. ;-)

Quite a few, stacked together last time I checked. And one hydraulic system that I know of. The point was that I was comparing a standard transmission/transaxle to an automatic anything. The standard transmission, in my experience, will go longer without a failure because there are far fewer things to break. Further on that point, it will be easier to repair if it does break, and since the 'automanual' boxes are relatively new, long-term reliability is somewhat hard to gauge. The syncromesh manual gearbox on the other hand has been around since what, 1940 something?

$27 a liter isn't not cheap, and the DSG units do not take ATF. Maybe the Ford's do? I'll probably never know because I won't buy a ford anything. But keep reading.

How about take your own advice?

Best, Chris

Is your sister any good with a clutch? And at figuring out where to shift?

If so, a manual transmission would be OK. Some people might still preffer not to mess with a clutch in stop and go driving. But if she guns the engine and drags the clutch, go with an AT. She'll spend less on maintenance.

It better be good because it most probably will be expensive to repair.

Lugnut

the only way it's going to be "expensive to repair" is if people allow themselves to be brainwashed with the concept that these things are complicated. they're not. it's basically just a stick with the clutch operated by a big solenoid and the gear selection operated by another couple of solenoids. the only real difference is that shifter and pedal linkages are now operated by machine, not you. solenoids are reliable [if corners are not cut]. the gearsets should be as reliable as the stick. that leaves the clutch[s]. and they're no more difficult to repair than a traditional stick if you can handle the concept that there are two driven plates, not one.

yeah, well "cap'n mechanical injection is not electronic injection" should check his dates.

he should also learn to annotate his snipping to preserve meaning, not distort it.

a lot of auto transmissions in domestics are designed to fail after given mileages. there's nothing inherently less reliable in an auto as far as the drivetrain is concerned - if anything, the opposite - planetary gearsets are theoretically stronger and therefore more reliable than simple spur gearsets.

but once detroit succeeded in brainwashing people into expecting to replace an auto transmission every 100k, then people coughed up the dough with no real resistance. and the gravy train is well and truly in motion. detroit's not giving up that particular cash machine without one heck of a fight.

so? date has nothing to do with it.

traditional synchros are over-engineered to withstand abuse. the expression "grind it till you find it" didn't come from nowhere.

if you have a computer shifting, you don't need such heavy synchros because the thing is being shifted with complete precision each and every time. that should also improve reliability - unless of course, the design spec includes life limitation...

with a dry clutch version, there's no reason it shouldn't run traditional lubricants. unless of course you as a manufacturer want to take the opportunity to mystify and expensify.

that's a classic - "do what i say, not what i [don't] do".

Okay, I'm going to NOT take this out of context. Here is sentence one:

Sentence two:

Wha.....what!? A slushbox -designed with a limited lifetime- is not inherently less reliable than a standard gearbox?

You're one of them 'special' kind of stupid folks huh? :-)

Have a good one, and uhh..thanks for the chuckle, smart guy.

Chris

er, "nothing inherent" means it's not liable to fail on its own - you have to design it to.

sticks can be caused to fail too, it's just harder and more expensive to implement. [assuming you subscribe to the fallacy that a stick's clutch wearing out in the same time frame as an auto doesn't make them directly comparable.]

Automatics are better than they used to be -- more efficient, more gears (implying a better chance of being in the right one), fairly cleverly computer controlled.

I haven't seen a test of the 6-speed-automatic Fiesta, but even the 5- speed automatic only gave up 1 mpg city, 2 highway to the manual, so I'm guessing it'll be about a wash except maybe in the hands, and feet, of a skilled "hypermiler."

You can also get a $700 Special Fuel Economy option on SE models of both the sedan and the hatchback. It cleans up aerodynamic detailing on and under (yes, under) the car. Supposedly this buys you 2 mpg highway (aerodynamics being much more important at highway speeds).

The EPA rating for a 2011 SFE Fiesta with automatic (doesn't say

I'd recommend the manual if she can only afford a base model, or drives on mountain roads a lot, or just prefers to row her own -- AND knows how to do this properly. For city-dominated driving, or people whose stick-and-clutch skills are unschooled, an automatic is the way to go and the 6-speed is preferable if the money works out. SFE package? The ratio of city to highway driving would have a lot to do with the payback time on that $800 investment.

I haven't driven one but the magazines make me think it's a neat little car.

Best of luck,

--Joe