Battery on Concrete / Water-Witching same?

I believe that is an old fairy tale which dates way on back to old style batteries, for whatever reasons, about storing a battey on concrete.I don't see how it would have any effect at all on modern day batteries.The main thing is to keep the battery charged up properly and in my opinion, use the battery once in a while. cuhulin

I've heard this on and off for years, and have never really been able to figure out the physics of it either. Some discussions in urban- folklore circles make me classify it as "ascribing false causality" to a battery's natural loss of charge at a fractional percentage while just sitting there -- exacerbated by any acid that leaked over the case (batteries used to be leakier, especially up top, than they are now). Some people say that trapped moisture under the battery might also help in the completion of a circuit.

(Even modern batteries leak a bit, as anyone can testify who has found hidden corrosion under the battery tray in a car that's been in service, with typical (lack of) maintenance, for several years or more.)

It may have had even more of a basis in fact in olden times when a battery involved a "battery jar" in a wooden case, but that was donkey's years ago and probably has little to do with relatively modern rubber or plastic cased batteries.

As someone points out in one such discussion at

is also some likelihood that the battery was put on the floorbecause it was unsatisfactory in some way in the first place,whereupon it failed to get better with age. See also -- in particular thestatement that "Lead-acid batteries must always be stored in a chargedstate. {...} Prolonged storage below the critical voltage causessulfation, a condition that is difficult to reverse." In other words,the concrete isn't the killer of the battery, just its tombstone. Those sites also have quite a bit of information on the care and feeding of costly batteries that most people probably don't know, as does I might add that if a battery is leaking a lot, it can uglify the concrete (or pretty much whatever else you set it on), but a seriously leaking battery needs secondary containment pending proper disposal anyway.

Cheers,

--Joe

still propagating

explanation for this.

Religion.....more Faith than Fact.

Sure it is a fact and does happen. Batteries get a thin layer of acid on them as they charge and discharge which comes from the vents or even splashes from moving. That is why you can burn holes in pants by picking up a battery.

This layer, although thin will allow some current to flow over the battery to the concrete floor which will discharge a battery over time like a winter storage and leave a stain on the floor.

I tried an experiment with my electric boat batteries and left a couple on concrete for a winter, the rest were on plywood. The concrete ones drained down, the plywood ones held.

And 'water witching' works really well! I have found well sources and can even find a blocked sewer pipe under a concrete floor or trace out sewer pipes with running water in them! Saves a lot of digging when hooking up a new toilet or fixing trouble.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

still propagating

explanation for this.

Religion.....more Faith than Fact.

It's not a myth.What happens is this. Concrete by it's nature and size/weight deadens vibration. It also maintains a more constant temperature than other surfaces.

Those two factors lead to a battery that will over time allow stratification of the chemicals of the battery much more readily than a battery that gets moved around from time to time. This stratification harms the battery.

Well, Mike, you're in for a treat then! Just prove to James Randi that you can really do it, and the $1,000,000 is yours! Apropos, how exactly do you do it? What appliance do you use? (Stick(s), wood, metal, shape?)

The Aboriginals in Australia know how to find water in the desert with a long straw.I guess they do anyway, I saw it on one of those Crocodile Dundee movies.Get two Coca Cola bottles (or similar bottles) and cut two pieces of coat hanger and bend them at a right angle, put the wires in the bottles and walk around and see if you can find any water. cuhulin

Been doing it since I was a kid. I use a Y stick of either willow or alder and they will dive at water strong enough to peel off the bark in my hands if I try to hold them up if there is a good water source.

My dad was a skeptic too until I traced the house sewer pipes and he compared my chalk marks to the blueprints.

I know lots of others too, why is someone offering money for a well finder? They are common in rural areas of Canada.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Sorry to be crude, but my comment to this is "horseshit!"

was still propagating

explanation for this.

Religion.....more Faith than Fact.

I think the location of the concrete is the major factor. Uninsulated concrete in an unheated garage is always cold and damp. The reason the concrete is cold is because the ground is cold and the warmer air will condense moisture. If you set a battery on the concrete the battery will also be cold and damp. It's gets damp because moisture condenses on cold objects. If you set the battery on a surface that is insulated from the cold concrete the battery will stay closer to air temperature and have less condensation. On the other hand if you put the battery on concrete that is insulated in a heated building then the problem of condensation is not present. If the battery stays nice and dry it won't lose its charge as fast.

So your theory is you put it on the floor then you forget about it? Put the battery on a workbench and you are always moving it to get it out of your way.

-jim

Hey, Mike? He's serious. The guy is offering a million bucks in your choice of cash or negotiable instruments for anybody who, under controlled conditions, can successfully demonstrate (meaning "do better than random chance") dowsing, or any other "paranormal" ability. The offer has been up and standing for at least 5 years that I'm aware of. And nobody - not dowsers, not psychics, not *ANYBODY* who has attempted to claim it has gotten past the "weed out the nutcases" prelims.

If you're so sure that you can do it, a million bucks is waiting for you anytime you want to go talk to the guy.

But I'm betting that, much like the several hundred previous dowsers who have unsuccessfully tried to claim the cash, you'll have some excuse for why "it just isn't working for me today"...

(No, Mike, I'm NOT trying to be a dick - but James has seen all the crackpots, with more coming continuously. And he's heard all the excuses. And to date, not a single dowser has even come close to a 50% success rate at "finding" water when they make the attempt. Despite incredibly simple conditions...)

My understanding of this practice stems from long ago when batteries were made in glass jars. The fear was that if you set it on concrete you could break the glass thus destroying the battery.

I personally store a couple of batteries on concrete and don't see any more discharge in them than in cars that do not get driven much. Not scientific, I know.

Any battery not in use needs to be charge every couple of months or so. I charge my riding mower battery once a month in the off season. The original battery lasted 13 years. My neighbor who does not charge his has to replace his every couple of years. To get a full charge you need to take it to about

15.25 volts. I like to use a 1 amp charger for this.

was still propagating

credible explanation for this.

Religion.....more Faith than Fact.

If you really believe you have the ability to water witch why don't you go here...

and make yourself $1,000,000 richer. So far not a single person has ever been able to find water when put to the test. Randi did a very well laid out real world test of several who claimed they could and none were able to find water.

Lots of info about it on his dowsing page

was still propagating

explanation for this.

Religion.....more Faith than Fact.

========= =========

Well.....I .....CAN"T do it....and i've tried!!!! . but.................... . I ...HAVE seen it done on TWO occasions.... both times to find pipes. Once to locate a standard undergound water line by grandfather, and the other by a man that used it to locate old sewer lines. First time when i was a kid... the second i was in my mid 20's on Fripp Island South Carolina during the building of a golf course. . If Mike says he can do it.....i don't doubt it a bit......his description of what he uses mirrors what I saw and what i've heard from older family members over the years. . As to the 1 million dollor challenge...... one would have to question what the conditions were, as far as "controlled test" goes......aye? In order for the devine'n rod to work....it has to cross over a deviation in the earths magnetic field. (fact,not fiction) So if the guy stick'n up the 1 million dollors has eliminated that ONE criteria...then NO ONE is going to be able to pass his "controlled test". . As for any of you that don't subscribe to the validity of the skill......well....you yung'ns believe what you want.....my old arse still believes what i've seen!!!

as a last note.....anyone that is adamant about disproving that it works...please explain to me how a compass works to find electrical wires in a wall????

~~

00 L O

~:~ marsh ~takes a sip of his crownroyal....pours one fer mike.... and wonders if mike has ever "smelled" rain come'n~~ ~:~

OK... here's the explanation I've always heard....

The generation of electricity in a lead acid cell is an exothermic reaction -- i.e. it generates(gives off) heat(and electricity) during the chemical reaction. In theory, the battery comes to a steady state where heat is generated(internally) and lost(thru the plastic case) at the same rate. This means the "charge" is being lost even if the battery is just sitting and not being used. Now, if you suck away heat faster from the battery, you're sucking away charge faster. A concrete floor or slab is almost the ultimate heat sink. You could put a lot of heat into it without significantly raising the temperature. So the battery heat is efficiently taken away quickly by sitting on the concrete reducing the charge.

While the theory says this is true, I believe the actual effect to be very small compared to many other factors including the air temperature, the cell manufacturing tolerances and chemical tolerances. I really don't think you could take two batteries, put one on a piece of insulation and one directly on the concrete and expect any one to last longer than the other every time...

LOL! Is that supposed to be another weird trick that I am not supposed to be able to do either? I also watch the leaves on trees and when they all flip their bottoms up, rain is usually on the way.

Mike

Thanks for the links, I am going to look into this, but it seems almost like an internet scam.

Mike

Asht> If you really believe you have the ability to water witch why don't > you go here...

was still propagating

credible explanation for this.

Religion.....more Faith than Fact.

Interesting. I never thought it was a big mystery.

I read some of the website and it would seem if you can prove something, he has 10K to give, not a million. Well a million is supposedly stashed someplace for show anyway.

You are right though, he only attracts crackpots or nutcases from what I have read so far.

Still, I could sure use the 10K.....

I think it's time to raid the neighbour's willow tree for some branches and see if my 'skills' are better than random.

Mike

I might find me a willow tree and snag a few branches and try it out too.I sort of think water witching is for real.I have a battery stored on a wooden shelf in my shed in my back yard because I don't want to trip on it if I put it on the floor.Sometimes I stub my toe on my bathroom door when I go to my bathroom, that hurts. cuhulin

You Too? I can generally come withing 5 minutes of timing rain here by the smell in the air. I have seen dowsing done as well one person I know can put his hand on someones shoulder and walk with them and find water. He usually hits the depth as well.