Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

No, The B&S got pretty dirty after first use. Maybe black after a couple of uses. This was about 15 years ago when I first had the edger (no longer have it). Engine worked OK for the 7-8 years I had it, but not anything like the Honda which started the first pull of cord every time (and engine oil stayed quite clean).

Escort, Camry, Accord... all generic people-transporters of the same ilk. They're completely interchangeable cars as far as I'm concerned.

If you believe that particular engines are "not suitable for synthetic oil," then there's no use trying to have an intelligent, engineering-based discussion.

And I've been using synthetic oil in 2 B&S 6-horsepower lawnmowers and a

5-horsepower tiller for over 10 years now. All 3 are good as new, despite being air-cooled engines that see most of their operation in near-100 degree F ambient temperatures.

Of course the same was true of the 60s B&S engines I had back in the 70s and 80s that only got single-grade SAE 30 dino oil, too. I just can't kill a B&S, and I sure don't take it easy on them. I've only ever gotten rid of a B&S powered mower because the mower deck fell apart around the engine.

Based on looking at the very dirty oil after first use on my Briggs and Stratton engine, I made the determination that synthetic would not work well in that engine, even though I had no problem with it in my Honda lawnmower. Someone else mentioned in this thread that they put synthetic oil in a B&S engine and it was ruined.

You can piss and moan about intelligence all you want to, but those are the facts.

In the case of small engines with splash-plate lubrication rather than an oil pump, the synthetic oils are NOT generally suitable for them. The better flow characteristics of the synthetics mean the splash plate cannot pick up enough oil.

This is why Royal Purple, for instance, makes a special synthetic oil that is designed to be extra-sticky, for small engines.

--scott

Guess that depends on how much you value your time or enjoy doing oil changes.

Yes, and "becoming acidic" is just one of the things that happens to oil as the miles go by. So what is the advantage of getting a good additive package that counteracts or slows down that inevitable deterioration versus just changing the oil more frequently to avoid the deterioration?

-jim

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No, there isnt.. I went back to the distributor on this and they told me that B&S did not recommend synthetics in this engine, and I shouldnt have assumed that the Mobil 1 would be a good choice after break-in.

I went into the B&S, honed it, installed new rings, etc, and it lasted a few hours, but quickly went to hell again. Got rid of it, dont want to hear that technically the synthetic should have been great.. Either the B&S was BS, or the lubricant was unacceptable.

Next mower, I used what B&S recommended, and it worked fine (until it was stolen a couple of months ago).

I can talk engineering with you all day long, but this is not a case where I am very open to "shoulda, coulda, and woulda".

These were modern B&S engines, not old ones. The old ones were very likely better made.

What $3 Fram filer? I checked on-line prices at local auto parts stores (Advance and AutoZone). The $3.99 Fram (PH2) and the $6.99 Fram (TG2) equivalents to the Motorcraft FL820S ($3.68) both include the same glued cardboard end caps and the same mediocre relief valve. The $6.99 Fram filter does buy you a silicone anti-drain back valve. However, the CHEAPER Motorcraft FL820S includes the silicone anti-drain back valve, a very robust pressure relief valve, and potted metal end caps. There is no comparison, the Fram filters are a rip off, at least for this application.

Maybe for other applications, the Fram filters are better. I can't say for sure. I've only cut open Fram filters for a few applications (FL820S, FL1, a Honda Filter) and they all had the same basic construction that I don't like.

Ed

From where I sit, spending extra for slightly more frequent oil changes costs about the same as regular UOAs.

It would be different if I were managing a fleet. Well, my wife considers 3 vintage muscle cars and 3 daily drivers a "fleet," but I don't... :-)

There might be some fact involved if you could tell me one single reason that a synthetic oil wouldn't work in a given engine, given that synthetic oils and conventional oils all meet the same API specs and are, in fact, mixable. If we were talking about a vintage airplane engine with silver-indium bearings, then yeah you can talk about synthetics (or ANY automotive oil for that matter) not being "suitable," but you're talking about an engine designed to run on the same oils as any automobile, not some quirky bit of engineering.

All you gave me is some hear-say based on some eyeball determination that the oil "got black." It might be as simple as excessive blow-by on a new engine while the rings seat... but it has NOTHING to do with the engine not being "suitable" for synthetic oil!

Reality check - what percentage of cars do you think are retired from service because of an engine "worn out" due to oil related wear (as opposed to failures related to the fuel, ignition, sensors, or other non-lubricated component)? I am guessing it is a very low percentage. I think rust, accidents, and transmission problems are all a lot more likely to be the reason that a car is junked than a worn out engine (well unless you are driving a Toyota with one of the sludge prone engines). No one I know has ever gotten rid of a car because the engine was worn out. I know it happens, but just not very often. My older sister is the queen of ignoring maintenance, and even she has never worn out an engine. The engine in the 12 year old Honda she just sold ran just fine. The rest of the car was crap, but the engine was fine and it never had oil changes more often than 7500 miles and often a lot less often. Nothing better than conventional Havoline was every used in the crank case (but she did get decent Wix filters).

Ed

Come on, YOU know better than to infer a trend from one data point. How many other things could have happened to ruin that engine?

And last time I looked, Briggs has withdrawn any anti-synthetic recommendations they had. Probably more a case of CYA than engineering.

If that were really true, then how do they meet the API specs for flow? WAAAAY back in the dawn of synthetics, there were claims- possibly quite true- about their lack of proper lubrication for the vertical surfaces of some automotive engine thrust bearings, but that was addressed by the oil makers 20+ years ago. If there were really that sort of difference persisting to this day, it would show up lots of other places, not JUST in air-cooled small engines. I just don't see it.

Like everything, its a trade-off. If every car owner went to a 6000-mile versus the ridiculously short 3000 mile change interval, the savings in crude oil or natural gas (the raw material for synthetic oils), the reduction in energy required to produce the oil, and the reduced load on the recycling infrastructure would be non-negligible. And since acid increase starts the first time you turn the key, its better to use a better additive package even if you KEEP your short drain interval, too. On the other hand, buying an oil that CAN keep a reasonable TBN until

20,000 miles or some silly high number is counter-productive too, since viscosity shift and solid (soot) contamination in automotive engines with their rather poor filtration systems comes into play long before then. From everything I've been able to gather, a change interval in the 6000 to 9000 mile zone with good oil is a pretty reasonable trade for the vast majority of car drivers out there.

And I suspect the ones retired from service for all non-engine problems combined is far smaller than those retired from service because the owners just wanted something newer and flashier.

When the last bit is used, the universe will collapse into a black hole. I think it is scheduled to happen soon, so I am having as much fun as I can now.

Ed