Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

The only argument for not using synthetic is that it costs more (not very much, maybe about $15 more per oil change). Now people want me to conduct an "independent test using statistical analysis of actual data" and other such measures to guarantee that synthetic oil is actually beneficial. How much will that cost? Nobody seems to care about wasting money on such studies or proof.

I was always skeptical of synthetic oil, but when I switched from conventional oil after my first oil change on my 98 Camry V6 XLE, I noticed a difference right away in how much easier the engine revved with my foot on the gas peddle. Please don't tell me it had anything to do with the engine being new, I noticed the difference immediately after the switch to synthetic.

There are a bunch of other reasons why someone would want to use synthetic, such as the sludge problems reported on many Toyota V6 engines of that era. All race cars use synthetic oil. Many high end cars use them as factory fill (not just cars with exotic engines) and there have been studies that show that synthetic oil does reduce engine wear, although maybe not much on used NY taxis. Most engine wear occurs when the engine is not yet at operating temperature, which doesn't apply to NY taxis that are always warm relative to the miles they drive. Like many people, about half the trips I take are short distances when the engine is not fully warmed up.

All of these reasons, in conjunction with my own observations of improved engine performance and very slightly better gas mileage (1%), are good enough for me. I am convinced of the benefits.

But just in case I am totally and completely wrong, and have completely deluded myself in this matter, I am only out $30 per year (even if you don't count gas mileage savings). I loose that much every minute in my 401K. If I am right, then I probably have at least broken even and may have saved myself thousands of dollars. Others can do what they like.

The OP asked about the best motor oil, not the cheapest. He can determine whether the best is worth the extra money. I doubt that someone would ask such a question if they had a 3 year lease on a car and intended to get a new car when the lease expires.

BTW, Ray O uses synthetic oil in all three of cars, but he doesn't like to talk about that because synthetic is not specified by Toyota or Lexus for his vehicles.

$30 per year? That is one meal, a couple of drinks, tip and tax at a restaurant. People need to get some perspective in their lives.

Well said.

--Vic

The thing is, the cost argument is a very good argument. I change my oil every 3,000 miles, which works out to a little bit more often than once a month. This adds up to a substantial cost in the end.

I'm not sure why you should expect such a difference, but if it makes you feel better, that's fine.

The sludge problems on those Toyota V6es can be prevented with synthetic oils, it's true. But they can also be prevented by religiously done conventional oil changes every 3,000 miles.

I'm not. I use the synthetic oils anyway, because I figure that the cost of an engine is so high that the added few hundred dollars a year is worth it to me, and because I tend to drive cars until they have several hundred thousand miles on them. I'm not sure it really makes any difference in any of the engines I use, and if I happen to get a really good deal on conventional oil, I'll use it for a few weeks until the next change and I certainly don't see any short-term difference in doing so.

That's basically how I feel, although frankly I wish I were paying only $30 a year for oil. Hell, I pay more than $30 a year in gear oil for the transmission and differential which get done about annually.

--scott

So the truth begins to emerge, your problem is not synthetic oil or lack of documentation but Amsoil dealers and MLM type marketing.

But we are IMO. Because IMO the poorly glued pieces of paper are like duct tape compare to a piece of stamped metal filled with epoxy.

And your reading comprehension, at least on this particular post; was very poor. He distinctly said he used synthetic oil for ten years, but not Amsoil. personally I've used Syntec, Royal Purple and Amsoil and would NOT recommend Syntec under any circumstances.

Most people don't change their oil every 3000 miles, but let's look at your situation.

If you used synthetic oil and changed every 5000 miles, I would guarantee you that your oil would be in better shape at 5000 miles with synthetic than at 3000 miles with conventional. So in your case, you would at least break even.

Can you prove that? I would like to seem a financial analysis of your claim. Don't forget to figure in the cost of a person's time, which in my case is about $60 per hour.

I have plenty to support it, and have posted it in other posts and other threads (many times).

But I am not going to spend thousands of dollars to get "proof" of something that only costs $30 per year and whose benefits are largely intuitive to anyone with any brains.

Great, you have an OPINION. That's fine. You are entitled to it and can use it to determine how you spend your money. But it means nothing as far as whether the duct tape works perfectly fine for the intended use or not.

Unless you are servicing large diesel locomotives, and perhaps some large trucks, the only value to an oil analysis is to make money for the company providing the service or to help determine AFTER THE FACT what went wrong. For the cost of the analysis you could just have the oil changed. There is a reason oil/filter changes are called PREVENTIVE maintenance.

Depends on how you define "lubrication". Most dino oil will have gone out of spec by much past 7500. That doesn't mean it isn't still "lubricating". There are people (stupid ones) that buy a new car and just drive it till the engine stops running, which usually happens around 30,000 to 50,000 miles when it either has burned so much oil there's nothing left to circulate or the remaining oil has gotten so thick it can no longer be pumped. But up until then the oil is still "lubricating".

Many tests have shown synthetic last longer. It's just a fact. They don't last forever and no one has said they do.

The performance of synthetic is better in every way that counts for anything. Whether it's cost effective depends on individual factors for a particular type of operation.

Prove it.

Most engine wear occurs when the engine is started after a cold soak and the oil had drained down to the oil pan. When the engine is first turned over, the only lubrication present is the oil film remaining on friction surfaces until the oil pump starts circulating oil.

I use synthetic oil in 2 out of 4 cars. Obviously, I don't have anything against synthetic oil since I use it myself. The part I disagree on is that using synthetic saves money when following the factory recommended oil change intervals.

Be grateful you don't have to feed my family of big eaters!

This is bad. Because my sneaking suspicion is that in most cases (and the case of the turbocharger is a good example of an exception) people will benefit more per dollar with proper oil change intervals rather than synthetic oil.

Depends on how much you're paying for the oil change (filter+labour) versus the oil itself, but that could well be true.

--scott

The problem is that one oil analysis tells you nothing... you have to keep doing a whole bunch of them to get a good sense for what is going on.

With a big diesel engine that takes a lot of oil and uses an expensive filter, oil analysis can save you a lot of money.

With a typical auto engine, reducing your oil change interval will cost less than doing constant testing. However, if you are the sort of person who wants to always know what is going on inside your engine and who might want warning of possible failure with high mileage, it might be worth the money to you. But that's more a psychological thing.

--scott

This is one of the longest threads I've ever seen. Maybe someone should start a new newsgroup for oil/filters? :-) Dick

Some of the OT threads are much longer.

Just extending the drain interval well within the capabilities of syn. oil will even out the cost.