Bleeding Brakes on Toyota

Should be OK if you use a pressure bleeder and don't let the MC run dry. Mfgr. may not recommend changing brake fluid so do at your own risk. I personally think it's a good idea.

nate

Dang, I thought you were going to ask about all the blood stains on the pavement from drivers killed by driving those things.

Why would any manufacturer recommends not changing the brake fluid? That's news to me.

At least as of a few years back GM did not. Their stance was that the risk of the water in the brake fluid causing a failure of something brake-related over the expected lifetime of the vehicle was less than the risk of introducing debris into the ABS unit by flushing. Of course, if you plan on keeping your vehicle longer than the manufacturer expects you to do...

nate

It's amazing how you can still post after one left your brain splattered all over the street...

But when one actually reads your posts, it's not such a mystery after all...

Can a GM product MAKE it to the point of having to change anything?

For the same reason so many manufacturers no longer recommend changing the transmission fluid at all: they want to sell you a new car when yours falls apart.

BMW is interesting... they started offering free scheduled maintenance for the first few years of the car, and at the same time a lot of things dropped off the maintenance schedule. In fact, almost everything dropped off the maintenance schedule; they now offer "lifetime fill" transmissions as well. Mind you, the lifetime is a lot shorter than it should be...

--scott

Sure, I had to have the brakes replaced on my last company car at about

50K miles :/ I ASSume that that was due to lots of city driving combined with a ridiculously loose torque converter.

nate

It's old news. According to this, Ford, Chryco and GM said it was unnecessary as of

2001. Believe it or not. I have never changed brake fluid in my cars, and have not had any brake failures. One of my cars, a '90 Corsica, probably has 20 year old fluid. The fluid is certainly at least 12 years old, which is how long I've had it. Brakes are just fine. The whole brake fluid change thing was probably started by caliper/wheel cylinder manufacturers, brake fluid producers, brake flush outfits, and the EZ-Out company. Not enough traffic for fluid flushes, and back yard mechs not buying brake fluid, and not cracking off enough bleeders, so they figured "Hey, if we get the suckers to change fluid, business will skyrocket." Their campaign worked.

--Vic

Your bleeders shouldn't seize up in only two years. Of course, I'm also a proponent of those little rubber caps over the bleeder screws as well (vacuum caps work in a pinch if you don't have any.)

nate

I've had to replace calipers and brake cylinders in all of my cars. As far as I know, it's not a good idea to do this and retain your old, brownish, sludgy, moisture-laden, brake fluid. I'll at least bleed the brakes until the fluid runs clear - it's the easiest thing in the world to do.

It could be that the high humidity over here is a factor but you're got to be the luckiest guy in the whole world if you've never had to replace the those parts on your cars.

The trend these days is to sell loaded calipers to guys servicing brakes which could be seen as a marketing ploy. However, I've bought these sets if I thought my seals were leaking, the savings in time and hassle seems worth the price - but I could be wrong. :-)

Be my guest.

Never had a caliper or wheel cylinder fail. But except for a couple, I usually only have a car for 6-8 years before rust gets it. But they're usually 5-8 years old when I get them. Replaced a few failed MC's, which leads to bleeding, which once led to replacing a cylinder on one wheel. After that when I saw I'd snap the bleeder I just bled at the line connection to the wheel cylinder. Worked fine. Used that method a couple times when I replaced rusted rear lines. Never had trouble with caliper bleeders. They don't seem to rust like the wheel cylinder bleeders. I don't see not replacing calipers/cylinders as "lucky." But if they started failing on me I might consider that "unlucky." My experience is mostly limited to Chevys, but I never had a caliper/cylinder problem with my Ford or Chrysler either. Think I replaced the MC on the Ford. In fact, other than the MCs and a few rusted lines, the only brake problem I've had was when I did an emergency stop in my VW squareback shortly after I bought it. Slewed real bad. When I got home I crawled under the back axle and found....a snapped off bleeder on the passenger side wheel. No, the EZ-Out didn't work, but cylinders are cheap.

What do you mean "thought my seals were leaking?" What kind of cars are you talking about? Should be obvious if the seals are leaking or not. I've seen "damp" boots on wheel cylinders - which I ignore - but never any sign of leaking on calipers. Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it hasn't on my cars. BTW, I don't race my cars. Just abuse them normally. Let me toss this in, since we're talking about bleeding. My brother, who was a pro mech, speculates that most MC failures are due to bleeding, where the bleeder moves the piston farther than it normally goes, and screws the seals. Makes sense, but I'm no expert. I have seen mention of using a "stop" behind the pedal to prevent this. I never used one when I bled brakes, but it might be a good idea. Or use a pressure bleeder to avoid the pedal action altogether.

--Vic

I have done this several times... and looking at what was coming out made me suspect that changing the fluid would have prevented the failure in the first place.

I have now a car that is nearly 25 years old and has the original brake cylinders and lines... and I attribute this longevity to my changing the fluid and purging the lines every three or four years. May not actually be the case, but it doesn't seem to be hurting.

--scott

That would be brake fluid past the seals.

American cars, Japanese, and European cars.

I think so.

My guess is that you've never changed a wheel cylinder or caliper which explains why you've never changed your brake fluid. It seems to work for you but I'm of a different school.

Not pushing the brake pedal all the way to the floor is a good idea for the reasons your brother cites. However, I don't bother telling the guy doing the pedal pushing cause that'll just confuse them. :-)

Fancy stuff, I can't afford that!

I think you may be right about this. I don't buy new cars so I pin all the blame on those negligent previous owners. :-)

Your pain over the Toyota failures is noted.

You must live in an area that usually doesn't get snow/salt on the roads. In this area if you buy a 5 year old vehicle and keep it 5 years, you WILL be replacing wheel cylinders, calipers, and lines. Salt just LOVES to eat them up.

I'm to the point now that I just plan ahead and pre-bend new tubes when the originals are in good shape.

I'd pay extra for a vehicle equipped with quality stainless lines (fuel, brake and emissions) One less headache...

if you have a keeper, why not remove your lines and send them to classic or inline for a pattern before they're completely hosed? Obviously you'd have to do this around a vacation or something, because they're not going to get your shiny new stainless lines back to you the next day.

just a thought...

I dunno where you live but it sounds horrific. I grew up in western PA and even there I really only remember two vehicles having to replace hard lines, and both were fairly elderly.

nate

Rusty brake cylinder problem? The way White Post Restorations does it.

cuhulin