brake upgrades effect on ESC

As far as I know there isn't any sort of force calibration table, the computer simply looks at the wheel sensors and makes fine adjustments until wheel sensors show everything is fine again. Some systems may have accelerometers as well but the same principles are applied. The steps are probably fine enough that nothing bad will happen with upgraded brakes. These systems have to work with aftermarket pads and people who neglect their cars thus in a FEMA I think it would come up to avoid any scheme that used a force table but rather just use sensor data and small increments.

Also, I've not heard of an issue in Mustang circles. Although I don't know of anyone who changes the master cylinder* but rotors and calipers are often changed. Ford even sells the brakes from the GT500 and brembo package cars for others to install and there is no need to update software as far as I know.

*because there is no need as upgraded ford and aftermarket parts are usually designed to work with the stock MC.

Pretty much right. The various parameters are indeed tested and tweaked by real people wearing helmets and driving like a$$holes on closed test tracks.

Probably not, but I in a car with ASC if you deviate from factory I would make sure the parts are matched front-rear and side-side (a good idea in any case.) The reason that I say that is that traction is variable anyway, so the software is going to allow for variances between dry asphalt, wet concrete, glare ice etc. But what you don't want to do is put significantly more or less grippy brake pads on the front of the car, say, and leave the stock pads on the rear. It might not cause a problem - but then again it might. Likewise with tires, i'd prefer to see all four tires match.

nate

The whole point of the wheel sensors is to determine what the wheels are doing. So I see no reason why you can't do pretty much anything you want on and mix and match within reason with one possible exception and that would be things that significantly change the height of the center of gravity, like throwing those ghetto style 24 inch wheels on a car that came with 15 inch from the factory. Even for that it's possible the car has "tiltometers" that would even account for that kind of change.

Can vehicles with ASC be remotely hacked to handle like a dirt-tracker? Would be funny to see luxury SUV's spinning like tops.

ESC is a step up from say traction control. It also monitors the yaw of a vehicle and the steering wheel to predict if the car is about to skid off the road. It needs to modulate each brake. I imagine if you have

2 wheels on the bitumen and 2 wheel on gravel verge, it would be pretty clever to stay in control.

pull the fuse(s) for the appropriate module(s)...unless of course they also feed the ECM....

GW

I was thinking along the lines of intentional destabilization, not just turning off the system. Luxury SUV's bring out the misanthrope in me.

yeah, but these days, they don't have front/rear pressure proportioning valves and rely on the electronics. if you pull the fuse, you also pull pressure distribution management - and you don't want a situation where the rears are getting the same braking as the fronts.

most "upgrades" play on either different "mu" pads or "weak" effects like mechanical elasticity. most brake systems have to be able to compensate for mu, [e.g wet pads] and they do so by reading the tone ring signals from each wheel.

but for "upgrades", most are typically not as radical as they appear. few actually increase the piston area [which would require a master cylinder change to preserve mechanical advantage and thus pedal travel]. they work by way of an "elasticity effect", i.e. single piston calipers tend to have long bridging of the pad between piston sides and claw sides - and you can see this if you place two old pads face to face and see a bowed gap between them. if you go for multiple pistons, that bowing gets significantly reduced and thus effective pad pressures increase, even though the hydraulic pressures [total piston areas] are the same.

I don't know if it's true anymore, but years ago some vehicles used the ABS unit to also provide brake proportioning, so doing that might make the brakes dangerously improperly biased...

nate

do you always have to repeat what i say? or should i find your idiot imitation in some way flattering?

I know you'll be shocked by this, but I don't even read all your posts, so I have no idea to what you're referring. I can only take so much stupid in one day.

nate

no, you can only /be/ so much stoooopid in one day.

wasn't spinning around uncontrollably the intended result? He said "spinning like tops" on dirt.

GW

you're technically right, but that's not what i'd want.

I would. I also want a rear facing 40mm Bofors to deal with tailgating SUVs.

that's because your ride a trike and you really are in the way.