Buying old cars with a ton of miles on them....

On one hand, I feel like I'm just asking for trouble....

Slowly over the last few years I've nurtured a desire for a MKIII Toyota Supra- 1986.5-1992 model years. Specifically I want an all-original, unmodified white one with a Targa Top, turbocharged engine and 5spd transmission. So now I've been looking around on Craigslist... They're not rare, but they're not common either so I'm looking in a radius around me where I could make it a leisurely weekend drive out to go look at the car.

The nice ones I see are reasonable, around the upper end of $3500-$5500. They average about 130K to about 170K miles, with a few that I've seen approaching 200K. I've had old (muscle) cars before so I know that there are some things on 20+ year old cars I will just have to accept- LOTS of stuff is getting tired. The weatherstripping might be shrinking. The interior may look 'lived in'. I may have to consider putting a clutch in it next year. Or a half quart of oil in it every other fill up.

While a 20-something year old Toyota is more complicated than a 43 year old Fairlane, I would like to think that semi-modern cars may weather their age a little better, year for year. I'm not at all looking for a "project car", but I have to be honest with myself and understand that it's not a new car anymore and will sometimes need some work. The key enabling phrase is "not my daily driver"- it will be a fair-weather only car, garaged in the winter.

So if I go out to look at some of these, does anyone have any specific knowledge of MKIII Supras and things to look for? I notice a lot of them being sold because of head gasket failure, or advertised as having a recent head gasket replacement. Are there other Toyota cars and trucks throughout the ages that may donate parts to it, should things randomly die? Any things to look for in 20-something cars in general?

Encouragement, discouragement, flames or cheers?

Am I crazy, or am I just in love?

Thanks.

-ph

Reply to
phaeton
Loading thread data ...

I bought mine before the 'craze' started for $600. The girl wanted $800, but had a line on a good Corolla and needed money fast, plus it had a broken timing belt. I also almost bought one a few months later on eBay, same exact car but didn't bid 'cause I figured it would go for $15-1900... it went for $585, and was close enough to drive home... :(

Anyway, I have an '88 NA, Sport Roof with an automatic transmission. I bought it in 2004 and started working for a Toyota dealer in 2005. I was driving an '85 Celica as a 'second car' then, but it 'broke' a few months later, so I registered the Supra. The first day I drove it to work a mechanic who had been working there since my car was new said, "That thing's going to nickle and dime you to the poor house." He was basically right. However, on an 80 degree day, with the sun shining and the Sport Roof open, Who Cares?!?!?!

Anyway. Problems with my car (bearing in mind it was a $600 car...) it is a little rusty, surprising since it came from Canada and 'moved' to New England when it was about 12 years old.

The AT is all but shot out. It works, but has to be manually shifted up through the gears. It is notorious for breaking down the brass colored thingys here

formatting link
which are the solenoids. At last count I think I had 2 bad ones.

This

formatting link
will cure it, and I'm glad you brought this up since this is the cheapest I have seen these solenoids advertised since I got the car. They might be Chrysler, since they used the same trans in the Grand Cherokee for quite a while. I really want to change it to a 5-speed.

One of the bushings in one of the front lower control arm is wearing. Buy a new bushing? NOPE! Have to get the whole control arm from Toyota for $238. Other bushings are replaceable, but not those.

Spark plug changes (if you do your own work) are a PITA, since you have to take the intake runner off the car, as it starts on the passenger's side and ends on the driver's side, going over the engine in the process. Since I garage mine in a heated garage for the winter it wasn't too tough, but have a few hours if you want to do it in one day. The front one and the last one were new, the next two were probably one change back, and the middle one looked like an original from 1988...

Biggest problem: parts. If you can, buy another one! I have some nasty leaks from the tranny and the oil system, and thought I needed new trans cooler lines. I got them when I was working for the dealer; one from the parts distribution center in Boston, and the other from a dealer...in Japan; the LAST ONE IN THE WORLD!!!!!!!! It's for sale for a mere $275...

Now, for the good stuf. The sport roof is a blast. Pull it off once it gets above 75 degrees and enjoy the ride. Even with a crummy suspension (I need to replace the shocks, and I have a set of springs with 20,000 miles on them) the handling is great. The weight distribution is 50-50, something usually found only in cars like Ferraris. The Sport Roof obviously has some extra bracing, so the car weighs (or has a GVW) of 4400 pounds!!! When the belt was broken we had to push it up a short, steep ramp into the garage, and it took 4 of us! Performance takes a hit, but, then again, with the Sport Roof open, Who Cares?!?!

Steering is neutral, like most Toyota 'performance' cars.

The head gasket is the biggest issue, followed by the trans if it's an AT. The girl who had mine before had overheating problems and spent $1000 chasing it down; radiator test, hoses thermostat, and finally the guy figured out it was the HG. So mine has been replaced in the past 6 years, hopefully the guy knew to torque it to more than spec. Caveat: it *looks* like an easy job and may actually be able to be performed with the engine in the car. Once you get all the crap away from over the engine it looks like everything is right there, once you remove the valve covers. The VC gaskets were spraying oil onto the exhaust manifold, so I replaced them and cleaned the VCs while I was at it...

In 2006 the thing started overheating. IIRC, Ray O in the Toyota group and Comboverfish in this group steered me to the fan clutch; $82 later the engine has been running straight and true since ($82 was aftermarket...NOW they're selling for $39! >:( )

As far as leaks, the Sport Roof has a nasty habit of getting a leak in the roof. I have to cover the car, as I have still, after three attempts of repairing the gasket have not succeeded. I'm lucky. The leak is on the driver's side. I usually don't drive in the rain because of rust and because of the leak, but on the odd occasion I do get caught in the rain, going down the slightest incline and stepping on the brake fills my lap with water...time to rip the roof apart and get a new gasket...

I know one guy that took RTV (silicone rubber) and sealed his roof, and can't remove it. Where's the fun in *THAT*?!?!?

BTW, mine had ~200,000 miles on it when I got it. I drive it 12-15,000 miles a year since 2005 (OH YEAH! The speedo cable on the AT has a habit of breaking! No speedo, so mileage is an estimate; not only that, being from Canada it shows 278,000 on the clock...kilometers, that is. Nice touch? It looks like the speedo goes to 240 MPH...)

If you like to tinker, it's a good car. You're starting with a Toyota, but like all sports cars it has it's drawbacks. It's still better than a Nissan 240SX I had a few years ago, but the 240 with a 4 cylinder would give this car a run for it's money, mostly because of weight. But, with the Sport Roof open, Who Cares?!?!? The other consideration is tires. Remember, the roof is coming off! I lucked out and got some Hankook K106's on sale for $75 each. They were 'inexpensive', had a decent looking tread, were rated "All Season" (I don't really believe that) and 'looked' good. SURPRISE! They offered decent handling, actually, very good handling considering the price, and are QUIET!!!

Just for some background, I have had almost only Toyotas all my life; I still have my favorite, a 1985 Corolla GTS 1.6L DOHC, sitting in the back yard returning to the elements from which it came. It was going to get rebuilt, but then I bought the Supra...

I had the '85 Celica, 19 years old when I bought it. I have an 89 Subaru GL Coupe, and a 2005 Scion tC. One magazine tested the Supra and then 17 years later the Scion. The Scion is .1 second faster from 0-60 than the NA Supra. But the Supra is *IMMENSELY* more comfortable than the Scion, it just gets 8 MPG less. I sold a '95 Tercel that got 45 MPG to buy the Supra

But, with the Sport Roof open...Who Cares?!?!?! ;)

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

formatting link
>

formatting link
>

Great story Hachiroku. :)

I have similar ones for some of my old Fords (I've had almost nothing but Fords my whole life). I sold off the last of my muscle cars about 8 years ago. I figured "ok, i've got a new truck, i'm grown up and i'm done with this"..... but I think i've just been kidding myself.

I blame the Gran Turismo series.

I was originally going to pick up a Supra and tune it, just like all the other kids these days. But now I'm thinking about keeping it all stock and original.

I've actually got a line on an 87 right now in a rust-free state. In pictures it is gorgeous... clean as the day it was born. 7M-GTE, 5spd, Targa Top, TEM and a new set of tires. Looks all original and unmessed with. I'll have to take the day trip down to look at it in person.

It's about to roll 200K miles tho. Still... with the top off, who cares? About the only thing I would change on it would be a later front bumper, because I like the look of the 'nose' in the middle of the grille.

I figure a clean, rust-free body is the hard part. The mechanicals are easy. I just worry about finding parts. Or super tedious stuff like having to chase down wiring issues. I was at Autozone yesterday getting a set of brake drums for the daily driver, and I overheard them say they won't scan codes on any cars older than 1996 now. Oh well.

You haven't really encouraged nor discouraged me. But I'm seriously thinking about checking the car out. Most everyone I talk to that ever owned a Supra say that they are an amazing experience to drive. It sounds as if you love yours. :)

Thanks.

-ph

Reply to
phaeton

formatting link
>>

formatting link
>>

Sounds pretty decked. The TEMS has a little bit of trouble, but you can always replace them with Koni shocks that are adjustable by hand. It's been a while since I saw one with TEMS, but I believe it uses an actuator that turns a similar knob with the touch of a button inside the cabin.

I actually like mine better. 200,000 isn't an issue if the car has been maintained.

Yup. If the body has serious rust, you can fix it but it will come back. Mine is just starting. I should have done it last year, but we'll get to it this year. Parts are the real issue here. You can get some parts no problem, others...I needed a filler neck and there isn't a new one anywhere in the world. And some parts are pretty expensive, so check and see how much new stuff it has on it.

The oil pressure on mine goes real low after about an hour on hot days. I've been told it's probably the pressure sender, and I have a brand new one, but I can't find where the hell it goes!!!

Yeah, I do. The engine is strong, but the tranny's weak so I don't get the performance I should. But at 75 degrees with the Sport Roof off... ;)

The car really is a blast. It's comfortable, handles well, looks good even after all these years, and it's a Toyota! If the body's good, I'd go for it, because the engines are easily rebuilt. You can even get a short block from Toyota brand new for ~$2700 last time I checked. Trannies are all over the place, the 5-speed for the 7M-GTE was the R-154, IIRC, but the tranny for the 7M-GE is a W58, and they're all over the place. Shoot, I gave one away in the '85 Celica I had. If I had realized then...

Ah, well.

Actually, from the same era there is another car I'd like to have, a Mitsubishi 3000 GT. Even for 1989 it was more modern than the Supra, and higher performance (than the 7M-GE, anyway). A good example can be had for $2-4,000, and if it hasn't been pounded they're magnificent.

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

Ever thought of pulling the tranny and rebuilding it completely?

I know that places like tigerjapanese.com have whole, lightly used JDM engines and transmissions for reasonable. Though, I almost think i'd like to rebuild the engine and transmission myself. I haven't done either in aeons... i realize that a 7M-GTE is going to be a whole different beast than a 200 L6 out of a 1966 Falcon, but if I find a manual for it I think I could do it. I'm having a strangely difficult time sourcing a rebuild kit for the R-154 though.

-ph

Reply to
phaeton

The only new vehicle I ever bought before was back in the 1950s. A Raleigh (made in England) light weight three speed bicycle.I paid the hardware store clerk fifty cents each week untill I got the bicycle paid off. cuhulin

Reply to
cuhulin

I used to always have new cars. Then I got a job selling used cars. Every beater Toyota or Japanese (or Grand Voyager) car that came in that wasn't worth selling became a project. I currently have an '89 Subaru coupe, the '88 Supra and an '89 Mazda 626. Oh, yeah, and a 2005 Scion tC... ;)

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

The Aisin A340 was a more common trans, being used even in Jeeps.

From Wikipedia:

R154

This is a robust 5-speed transmission found in the MKIII Supra Turbo, Toyota Chaser Tourer V, Toyota Mark II Tourer V, Toyota Cresta Tourer V, and Toyota Soarer (turbo) up to 2001. It is also reported to have been used in Isuzu truck applications, as well as the Pontiac Solstice.

Well! Check a Pontiac dealer! The only Japanese cars listed here are the Supra, sold in the US, and the Soarer, otherwise known here as a Lexus SC300. Find a 5-speed SC300 and there's a tranny!

Here:

SUPRA 6 cyl 3.0L 1986-93 Turbo - 1st-2nd and 3rd-4th synchro assemblies use wire type springs - 92mm O.D input bearing. (35TM03 or DG4092. DTS-BK163 $281.32 DTS-BK163 $358.98

formatting link

Another good resource is supras.com

formatting link
We talk back and forth by e-mail. I have a separate e-mail account just for that since there's a lot of traffic. Some *REALLY* knowledgeable people there! What do you want to know about a Supra? You'll get an answer!

You can have a good read through here, too:

formatting link
Nice read on a cold winter night when you're dreaming of driving with the roof open!

Just about 3-4 more weeks!!!

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

Grand Voyager? Like Plymouth?

Also, did you previously state that the same transmission in your Supra was also put in Jeeps? I thought Chrysler was in bed with Mitsubishi, not Toyota....

-ph

Reply to
phaeton

Yup. Believe it or not, although I have driven mostly Japanese cars, and mostly Toyotas all my life, I had a '92 Caravan the wife bought, and then later (like, a few years ago) was given 2 Grand Voyagers, one AWD. I play in a band, and having a van is a nice thing. I like the way they are laid out, the way they handle and the capabilities. Mine gave me little trouble. I also had a 1994 Chrysler LHS that was given to me. I put 22,000 miles on it and traded it for $600 towards a 1 year old Scion tC. Biggest mistake I ever made. I should have kept the LHS and ponied up the $600. It was a GREAT car!

Yes, but Aisin makes the transmissions. They supply Toyota, and I guess they supply Mitsubishi and Chrysler as well.

Of course, I could be wrong...

Aisin automatic transmissions are manufactured by Aisin Seiki and Aisin AW, formerly known as Aisin-Warner, and which was established in 1969 as a joint venture between Aisin Seiki and BorgWarner. The joint venture terminated in 1987. While Aisin Seiki manufactures a variety of automotive components including automatic transmissions for heavy duty vehicle applications, Aisin AW manufactures automatic transmissions for light vehicle applications

# AW-4 (Used in XJ Jeep Cherokee and early ZJ Grand Cherokee) 4-speed longitudinal # AS68RC (2007- Dodge Ram 3500/4500/5500 Cab Chassis) 6-speed longitudinal # Aisin T-030 transmission ? Hybrid Electric Planetary (Hybrid Escape) # Aisin T-031 transmission ? Hybrid Electric Planetary (Hybrid Escape) # Aisin T-100 transmission ? Hybrid Electric Planetary (Lexus GS450h)

  • 1984? AX5 ? 5-speed o Jeep Cherokee XJ with 4-cyl engine o Jeep Wrangler YJ/TJ with 4-cyl engine * 1988? AX15 ? 5-speed o Jeep Cherokee XJ (1989-1999) with 6-cyl engine o Jeep Comanche MJ (1989-1992) with 6-cyl engine o Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ (1993 only) with 6-cyl engine o Jeep Wrangler YJ/TJ (1989-1999) with 6-cyl engine * May 1997? AH15/AH16 ? 6-speed o Toyota Dyna, Toyota Coaster, Hino Dutro * December 1997? AZ6 ? 6-speed o Mazda Miata/MX-5/Roadster, Mazda RX-8, Toyota Altezza/Lexus IS200

# 1982-1985 Volvo 240 2.1L Turbo I4 (AW71) # 1985-1990 Volvo 740 2.3L Turbo I4 (AW71) # 1985-1990 Volvo 760 2.3L Turbo I4 (AW71) # 1985-1990 Volvo 760 2.8L V6 (AW71) # 1987-1989 Volvo 780 2.8L V6 (AW71)

Interesting..Volvo as well?

I've heard of people putting an A340 in a Volvo before.

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

Nobody MAKES cars any more, they just assemble them. I once saw an AMC parts printout- half the parts were cross-referenced to GM or Chrysler part numbers. And that was 20+ years ago. Had to replace the rear axle assembly in an old full-size Ford wagon once (don't ask), and the junkyard guy's interchange book showed the same axle in Chevy wagons, and even a couple of the extra-light-duty pickups from a couple brands.

Reply to
aemeijers

Oh I see... just like how the BorgWarner T-5 is in my Ranger, Mustangs, S10s and older Camaros, etc. Probably a lot more. I assume the gear ratios are different though.

I'm really excited to get this Supra. I get to go pick it up next Sunday. It's a bit of a drive (~650 miles or so), and I sure hope it doesn't break down on the way or something. Other than towing or impromptu Uhaul truck+dolly rental, I'm not sure what else to do if that happens. I can't tow anything with my Ranger or I'd just do that.

Livin' on the edge!

Speaking of being in bands, a hatchback has proven itself to me in that situation. Yet another reason to love a Supra. They seem perfect for me, heh.

Can't wait! :-D

It'll be my first Toyota, and second import!

-ph

Reply to
phaeton

Tongue weight on a tow bar (not a T-trailer) is next to nothing. Your Ranger could tow that Supra with no problems. Being a stick, just drop it in neutral. Make sure and stop after first 20-30 minutes and feel the wheel hubs on the towed vehicle to make sure the brakes haven't locked up. Hard part would be attaching the tow bar to the Supra, what with that plastic front end.

Reply to
aemeijers

ine

6-cyl engine
6-cyl engine

with 6-cyl engine

th 6-cyl engine

Dutro

X-8, Toyota Altezza/Lexus IS200

Good luck with it!!!!!

Reply to
stevegp

My amp fits well in the Scion. Nothing fits in the Supra, since the hatch is pretty low in the rear of the car.

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

Toyota owns Denso, IIRC; if not then a healthy chunk of it. Kind of like GM and Delco, except Denso knows how to make parts to last and not to be replaced.

The article on Aisin said Toyota owns 51% of the company. But, yeah, they make the body panels and the rest are sourced parts.

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

I dunno.... In the manual, the 4cyl stepside Ranger with the 272 gears is rated to pull 1200 pounds. Great for a small fishing boat or something. But if Hachiroku says the sport-top Supra is 4400 pounds, I have my doubts....

Across town might be ok, but for 650 miles....

Reply to
phaeton

The GVWR on the door says 4400. Of course, that's with a full load. I think they estimate 250 LBS per passenger, so that's 3400.

650 mile in an untested car? Of course, I did about 65 on an old beater dirt bike I had just bought 2 hours earlier and didn't get stuck in the forests between Pittsfield and the Hudson river valley... ;)
Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

At least the Hudson River Valley is a beautiful place. Breaking down in someplace like Indiana would just be.... bleh....

-ph

Reply to
phaeton

An old friend with a big ol' raggedy RV once told me that the memories from a trip don't come from where you go but from where your break down. As a big ol' raggedy Imperial owner I have found that to always be true. There are entire trips that I don't remember a damn thing about but I'll never forget the night I slept in the back of the Imperial on the side of the road in NoWhereville Georgia!

I've been on a number of these "search and rescue" missions.. just make sure you have extra time, extra money and take your tools along.. You'll be fine and if it does conk out you'll have a story for your car buddies for the next ten years.

Steve B.

Reply to
Steve B.

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.