Camry, Differential, and Transmission fluid

Dear Experts,

A number of months ago, I made a posting about a strange faint noise in my car. Search for:

Strange, faint noise in Camry, and How long do CV joints last in Camrys?

The noise started after I had the transmission fluid changed last winter.

I had the CVJ joints, and the wheel bearings checked. They were fine. The best they could say was perhaps the tires had too aggressive a tread. The tires and wheel balancing was perfect.

The car has continued to run fine, albeit with this noise.

Recently I called an alignment expert. He said it could be the differential might need rebuilding.

So I looked this up on the net, and found that Camrys require ATF TYPE IV transmission fluid. Confirmed by the dealer. Dextron III is not recommended.

I called the shop who change the fluid. They said that they used "transmission fluid", meaning Dextron III.

Does it make sense that the wrong fluid is the cause of the noise?

Now, I'm wondering about the fluid in the torque convertor. What percentage of all the transmission fluid is in the torque convertor?

I'm told that flushing the system, like Jiffy LUbe and Aamco does, might just flush debris around the system. If I just do a regular transmission change, with no flush, it will leave some fluid in the torque convertor. The problem I have with Aamco and Jiffy Lube, is that they don't stock Type IV. They use Dextron III, and then use additives to change the properties of it to TYPE IV. So, I'm thinking for the Aamco price ($190.0, I could get two services from the dealer, and get rid of most all of the fluid. Ideas?

Thanks

Reply to
Roger Redford
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Automatics have a separate diff which takes an 80 grade oil IIRC.

Jason

Reply to
Jason James

Toyota Type IV has been used in only the past couple of years.

ALL ATF in the transmission circulates through the differential, transmission, and torque converter.

Examine the dipstick. It will tell you the type of fluid that belongs in that particular transmission.

Reply to
Philip ®

False. Do some research before you post.

Reply to
Philip ®

Phil,...the '96 4cyl auto has a separate diff and it uses Dexron II which is a bit wierd as the Mistubishi's dont run a separate housing, but it could be a cautionary measure to stop metal from the diff getting into the auto.

Jason

Reply to
Jason James

er...True.

My '92 Corolla wagon has a separate differential. My transmission guy recommends 80-90 weight oil for it and Toyota recommends transmission fluid.

I'm going with the 80 weight oil. If I lived in 'cold' country I'd use transmission fluid.

Scott in Florida

Reply to
Scott in Fla

HI all,

I looked at my Haynes manual. It only has one fluid, the transmission fluid. The whole transmission is filled from the same place.

So, back to the original question. Does it make sense that the noise I am hearing is coming from the differential? Will changing the fluid to TYPE IV make it stop? What percentage of fluid does the torque convertor take up?

Thanks

Reply to
Roger Redford

Thou Shalt Not install Type IV where another spec fluid is originally called for. Each of these different fluids have friction modifiers that affect the clutch and band engagements. They are not interchangeable beyond the descriptions on their labels.

Reply to
Philip ®

Phil,......''Thou shalt''? Inscribed in stone on your mantle-piece? :-)

Jason

Reply to
Jason James

Thou shalt NOT. ;-)

Reply to
Philip ®

After the seal between my differential and automatic transmission failed I discovered real quick (well not quick enough) that the two have different types of fluid. And they do not mix!

Reply to
Pops

Then someone changed it, because its suppposed to use the same fluid, this is the perfect reason why the diff fluid shouldnt be changed to gear oil. Scott, you reading this?

Reply to
MDT Tech®

I had the fluid changed to Type IV ATF. But the noise is still there.

Reply to
Roger Redford

Interesting .... it WOULD be beneficial for all if comparative performance data of Toyota T-IV to any other current over-the-counter ATF (ie, Mercon IV or V, Chrysler, or Dexron) were available. What is the real difference and does the difference (if there really is one) sufficient to preclude or allow the use of another spec fluid. I'll BET the people who put T-IV in place of Dexron in your car are using you for a guinea pig.

Reply to
Philip ®

There is a difference, not sure if it can interchange. Maybe someday we'll know, but if it could, they'd just use Dexron os T-IV in all, we have a TSB showing what takes what and its on the dipstick itself. So I would stay away from swapping around fluids, do exactly what Toyota tells you.

Reply to
MDT Tech®

Well... I wasn't going to mention this in another post but now....

Sunday and since no Toyota Parts Dept is open, I stopped by the local JIFFY LUBE to ask if they had T-IV they could sell me. As rode up on a little Yamaha TW200 (borrowed), six young men all stood there gawking .... esp after I took my helmet off. I walked up and asked if they had T-IV. None had ever heard of this kind of ATF and then tallest one started to tell me they use Dexron III in everything .... and never a problem. I reiterated -recent- models only and he repeated his line. I put up my hand and suggested they look into getting the right stuff in stock before something expensive boomerangs on the store. I walked away. This morning, 4 qts of genuine T-IV went in. The stuff is getting cheaper too! $16 for four quarts!

Reply to
Philip ®

We wewre told we'd be able to get it in bulk soon, when this happens, expect to see it in store shelves at a much reduced price.

Reply to
MDT Tech®

Oh goody!

Reply to
Philip ®

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE read this, Roger Redford! You seem like a nice person that just wants straight answers. Here they are from an honest Toyota tech who wants to help....

I checked out your previous post to find out you have a 1997 V-6 Camry.

Your car has the A540E series transaxle which uses DEXTRON DEXTRON DEXTRON!!!!! Thats DEXTRON III! DEXTRON 3! I swear it does, its not a lie. Its common knowledge among anyone who works on cars (and cares about their job).

Important point #2: Your transaxle DOES fill completely from the dipstick if you wish to fill it that way. This is very important, because there have been many cases (even ones I've seen come into my shop) where a quicklube establishment has drained the differential compartment but didn't know to fill it back up. On many of the older Toyotas, you had to fill the diff through a seperate plug in the case, or 5 miles out the door and it was new trans time!! But YOUR MODEL CAN'T BE SCREWED UP THAT WAY because the pan and diff chambers are not sealed internally. As long as your quicklube tech checked the dipstick level, your trans is completely full. This is a good indication that your diff is in fine condition.

Point #3: Type-IV fluid is a more refined (more friction-modified) fluid that is used on the Toyota "Super ECT" trans units starting in

96 with the RAV 4 and 2000-2003 with all other models. It so far seems to be a longer lasting fluid in terms of quality, but is not designed with the friction components that you need for your car. This can translate into weak shifts and excelerated clutch wear.

Point #4: Your noise is probably not diff related. If it is a droning sound above 30-40 mph its probably chopped rear tires. That is very common. The pliant rear suspension will chop up tire tread around turns and that is 50% of why tire rotations are SO important on smallish FWD cars. You should be able to feel uneven tread as you run your hand over the rear tires if this is the case.

I hate to say this now as it doesn't help you much, but you could have gone to a good shop, paid a half hour of labor, and they could tell you where the noise was coming from. That would be an experienced guy doing a road test and puting the car on his rack for about $40 - $60 (at a dealer) or $35 - $50 independant. The dealer would most likely find the problem easier and quicker with more accuracy due to their familiarity with the Toyota line, that's the rationality in spending more.

Please have your trans fluid changed back to Dextron III and figure out what the real cause of the noise is.

Toyota MDT in MO

Reply to
ComboverFish

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