Cars friendly to the home mechanic

Just a question and a comment here...

Would anyone agree with me that the 'newer' model cars (1994 on up) are much more difficult to work on for the home mechanic than the much older models? Or do you cars have gotten much easier and simpler to work on over the years? My belief is that they've become more compact, and as a result are much more difficult to service.

I used to have a chevy corsica '94, and that car was extremely difficult for me to work on. It was just very compact and there wasn't much space to move my hands around. For example, In order to change the alternator belt, I'd have to spend a ridiculous amount of time unbolting a top motor mounts in order to get to the belt. And changing the rear spark plugs was also a lot of trouble, as this car was a V6, and 3 of the spark plugs were in the back of the motor - or should I say near the firewall in the back. I'd have to go to the trouble of removing the distributor cap and then had to use a very long extension to remove and replace spark plugs. Because it was difficult to manuever, I did end up stripping one. And replacing the front shocks were also an amazing amount of work, as it took me all day long to do. I certainly wouldn't have had this trouble if it had been an older model car, but the problem with purchasing those cars nowadays is that they are usually too decripit & worn down.

Now that my chevy corsica died out, I plan on purchasing another used car this month. I was thinking about maybe purchasing a ford taurus or some other

1995+ on up model car, but a question I'd like to ask is, which cars out there do you think are most friendly to the home mechanic? I'd personally like to be able to do as much work as possible on my car, unless if there is a catastrophic breakdown that forces me to take it to a mechanic. I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way as I'm not trying to put down the mechanics industry as a whole, but over here where I live most of the licensed mechanics are flat out rip offs and price gougers, so looking for a model of car that is most friendly to the home mechanic will be a huge consideration when I go car shopping.

thanks

Reply to
Tysteel40
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IMHO, which is worth exactly what you paid for it, anything after about

1990 becomes increasingly more difficult to work on every year. I have an '88 Porsche and that is about the limit of my skill level. If I got anything much newer I'd have to invest in an OBDII scanner first off and also things seem to be packed a lot tighter in the engine bays.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

At a technician's level:

I can't complain, because when you become accustomed to the new. You quickly forget the old. But I say newer technology sure beats the old, would you want to drive a 57 Chevy every day?

I'd just want to restore one and keep it to drive on the nicest days, but the mileage in comparrison to a 2000 Chevy is 10 fold, and the durabilaty is also the same.

Just my devalued $0.02

Refinish King

Reply to
Refinish King

Report them to whoever the regulating body is in your area.. The labor rates are usually derived from a labor guide and multiplied by the shops hourly rate. It's VERY expensive to operate an automotive repair dealership. (ARD) People, benefits, rent, shop equipment, and the mechanics tools (which they must individually purchase). Your prices reflect all of it.

OBD-II scanners are a tool. If you don't understand how OBD-II works, what sets a code, different kinds of codes, and how the individual systems its monitors work -- they are not a lot of help. Lets say you throw a code like P0132 -- Oxygen Sensor High Voltage.. A high voltage is usually a rich condition. Is the O2 sensor telling you the truth? If it is, why do you have a rich condition? Is there a coolant temperature sensor telling the engine its cold and it should run really rich like at start-up? A leaking fuel injector thats dumping fuel? An EVAP purge solenoid thats not working right and isn't being caught by the comprehensive component monitor? There are lots of possibilities. Usually you get multiple codes and using them (w/ knowledge of the systems of a car) helps narrow down the possibilities.

Also, with hazardous waste disposal requirements -- it can be more trouble to get rid of the waste products than to actually do the service.

As much as I'd like to suggest an easy to work on car -- I really can't think of any. The flip side is to just purchase a car with a fabulous reliability record (Toyota/Honda) and a warranty so that the majority of your services are simple fluid changes, plugs wires, and just let someone with the tools do the timing belts and other major stuff.

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Reply to
Barry S.

There's no simple rule like "newer cars are easier/harder to work on".. Some kinds of cars are just going to be harder to service, like FWD V6 as you mentioned - 4-cylinder vehicles are generally going to have better access. It depends more on the specific model.. for example, GM's new Ecotec

4-cylinder engines seem pretty easy to work on for most routine service (the cartridge-style oil filter definitely is easier to access and can be changed with less mess than most conventional filter setups).

Also, a number of services are needed less often on newer cars (due to things like platinum spark plugs and extended-life coolant), so it's less of an issue.

Reply to
Robert Hancock

Small cars, preferrably ones without AC equipment or automatic transmission. Inexpensive parts & very good mileage are also bonuses. You're gonna see a lot less single-digit MPG hulks on the road with these gas prices (a long time coming for small-car drivers...not everyone is complaining about higher gas prices). A 3 or 4 cylinder car usually doesn't have a rear set of spark plugs to bother with.

But engine space isn't a top priority to most manufactrers...things like passenger space and amenities like A/C are considerably more important. And above all, making it harder to fix a car makes people buy a new one when the old one breaks down.

Dan

Reply to
dstvns

Interesting point you bring up, but I've been told to avoid purchasing foreign cars, as they are supposedly more difficult to work on than domestic brands. I don't know if there's any truth to that or if it's an old wives tale. .

Reply to
Tysteel40

Aren't the 6 cylinder vehicles more efficient than 4 cylinders? Don't those 6 cylinder cars generally last longer?

Maybe when looking for a used car, I should keep in mind to choose a 4 cylinder car over a V6, if it's access I'm looking for. The problem I had with working on the 1994 Chevy Corsica V6 was that there was very little access to service the vehicle. For example, when the water pump gave out, there was barely any space to put my hands in to unbolt the old one and replace it. The motor was so compact that there was just not enough space to efficiently move my hands and tools around to replace certain parts. And if I was lucky enough to budge some tools in there, it would take me a long time to replace parts. As I already mentioned in my other post, changing the rear spark plugs was a hassle with the 6 cylinder car.

It was recommended to me to purchase a pick-up truck, since there is much more space and access, but a car is more within my budget.

thanks,

Reply to
Tysteel40

No truth at all. I'd rather work on a 4 cylinder Honda than a GM Quad

4 or GM 3.1L/3.4/3.5L V6 ANYDAY. Additionally, the Honda/Toyota's seem to have better repair records.. They also have certified pre-owned programs that may be worth looking into.

Many of Toyota and Honda's products are made right here in America (Ohio, California, probably other states I'm forgetting about) so they aren't totally "foreign" anymore.

Lots of things are hard to work on with limited information. Buy the factory service manual for whatever you decide to purchase. (Available through dealer or sometimes

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Reply to
Barry S.

This is very true. In a pickup, the engine is mounted longitudinally which gives you easier access to the front accessories and space around the spark plugs.

For ease of working on in a car, I think a 4-cylinder Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla is pretty hard to beat. Everythings basically on top.. The manifolds don't block anything you would ever need to get at in normal maintenance. I think they provide ample space on the sides. The only negative I can think of is stuff like the timing belt and water pump. They can be a little tough without a well stocked tool box and some air tools.

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Reply to
Barry S.

No, I can't agree with this.

I cut my teeth on a 68 Ford Torino with a 302 in it. Even that was hard to work on in some places the engine compartment is really tight. But once I discovered a real auto jobber and the many special tools available I realized this is how the pros can work so fast.

Another thing I learned that makes jobs go a lot faster is don't be afraid to remove parts that are in the way for clearance. (of course, put them back when your done) Also an air compressor and a set of air wrenches helps a lot too.

Ted

Reply to
Ted Mittelstaedt

Sorry.... this newsgroup is only for people with an IQ above room temperature. In Centigrade.

Troll elsewhere.

Reply to
Bernd Felsche

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ News to owners of VW Caddy.

Reply to
Bernd Felsche

for reliability check teh Consumers reports annual aftermarket survey. the public library herre has them going back for years. in Canada there's also the Lemon Aid used car buyer's guide.

for servicability I've heard the rear wheel drive vechicles are easier becuase the drive line is not in the engine compartment and the engine is not turened around to face sideways.

personaly I'd prefer a free wheeling engine, not a interferenne engine where a timing belt problam can sent the cylinder head crashing into the valves. although Honda makes great engines they are all interference.

finally I've read some bad things about Mazda's, like having to remove the engine from the car to change the timing belt. OTOH to change the timing belt on the Mazda engine in my Ford Festiva I only had to remove the drive belt pulleys and the plastic timing belt shield. I didn't have to struggle with the big nut on the crankshaft. Mine is a carburetted engine. Later they changed to fuel injection and moved stuff around making it look more crowded from the photos in the Haynes manual.

I'd open the hood and see how crowded the engine compartment looks.

I was interested in seeing this thread and am surprized not to read teha tehre are definite preferences amongh peopel who have experience working on cars.

I anyone could get a copy of the book mechanics use to estimate labour costs it would be interesting to put all the numbers in a spreadsheet and sort out the overall lowest labour vehicles.

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Reply to
William R. Watt

X-No-Archive: Yes

I've always wondered how people work on cars like Subaru box engine, GMC Safari, Toyota mid-engine vans, etc.

Reply to
AC/DCdude17

Tysteel40 wrote in rec.autos.tech

Much of it depends upon the car. I had a 72 Dodge that you had to remove the passenger side front tire to change all the spark plugs. And some of the older cars had the distributor in the back of the engine. The only way to change points and condensor was to sit on top of the radiator and lean over the engine. And with all the crap around them you had to loosen the distributor slightly, then start the engine, adjust the timing, shut off the engine, and then tighten the distributor. And that means that the timing could drift a little bit. I had to change a starter of a VW Square back, 3 bolts holding it in. 2 you got from the bottom, one you had to go in from the top through a very tight engine compartment, and work by feel. And another thing about the old V-8's is that they would often put the plugs deep into a well where you could not see them. You could only guess about putting the plugs in, and the wires on the plugs. On the other hand, there was usually more than enough room to manuever around the engine. And rear wheel drive meant that the oil drain was at the rear of the engine compartment, where it is easy to get to. My 88 Buick has the drain plug is sitting dead center behind a tire, making it difficult to reach, and the filter is over a strut which means a big oil mess if I change the oil myself. So far, I have just taken it in to have it done. And the thermostat is located underneath the throttle body, so that when I change it I will have to remove the throttle body first. Newer cars have an added layer of complexity with the sensors and computer. But that also gives them more trouble shooting help. Nothing is out of reach for the back yard mechanic, it is only abit more difficult to reach some things. But if you want something easy to work on, go Honda's, Toyotas, and Nissans with 4 cylinder engines.

Reply to
Dick C

Nah, more of an old idiots tale. Never been true since I started working on cars. Only issues were that parts were harder to find and some of the really old manufacturers of the 50's and 60's had rather bad reputations for not even stocking their dealers properly. As for the cars themselves, an SU can be rebuilt in half the time of an older american carb.

Reply to
L0nD0t.$t0we11

No, and No. Predicting reliability by counting the number of cylinders is about as accurate as trying to use the paint color or the color of your wife's hair...and with as much basis in fact.

A well designed and built 4 banger will outlast a poorly designed 6 cylinder... and vice versa. Purely from a theoretical standpoint, the fewer the parts the more reliable...unfortunately that theory of MTBF tends to apply best when the parts themselves are equal in quality.

Mainly just look at engine size compared to engine compartment size...and the location of the engine compartment. And the fewer covers, baffles, etc. to get in your way the better.

Reply to
L0nD0t.$t0we11

More than a few are much easier to work on if you just put them up in the air and go in from underneath.

Reply to
L0nD0t.$t0we11

Unless you get something old (and that's the route I've taken), your best bet is to get a car with an inline 4 or 6 cylinder engine. It's the V-engines that always give me trouble reaching stuff... Emanuel

Reply to
E Brown

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