Chrysler 3.0 water leak - Part II

Rex:

Although I haven't seen one of those tubes git a pin hole thru it from inside out rusting thru-I wonder if its possible? I also like to run some emery cloth around the area the o-ring seats (female surface). Lastly I only prelube the o-rings with some assembly lube-NOT that silicone is wrong-I may do that some day-just haven't up till now.

Respectfully submitted,

Loren Knighton Woodland, CA.

Under the hood since 1964 Member TRNI IATN

|>From: snipped-for-privacy@txol.net (Rex B) |>Date: 7/11/2003 10:47 AM Pacific Standard Time |>I determined a while back that my '93 Shadow was losing water from the water |>tube under the intake. Of course, with the intake installed you can't |>actually SEE where the water is coming from. So, I tore it down the other |>night, cleaned it all up. Installed new o-rings, new intake gaskets. All |>sealing surfaces were good and clean, no pitting. I lubed everything up with |>silicone on assembly. |> So I got it back together enough to seal the cooling system, pressure |>checked |>it, and it leaks worse than before! I'll tear it back down again, but I |>though I had it covered. Am I missing something? Any tips or tricks to this? |> I figured on trying the following: |>

|>1 - Tweak the mounting brackets for the tube so it pushes deeper into the |>water |>pump so the o-rings are pushed against the 'step' in the WP bore. |>2 - Tweak the mounting bracket for the cast hose nipple that sticks into the |>other end of the tube so that it bottoms out with pressure on the o-ring. |>3 - Different sealer for the O-rings - #2 Permatex? |>4 - thicker O-rings? The Fel-Pro replacements looked good (the old ones |>were |>compressed) but the tube sure did slip together easily. I was expecting a |>more |>snug fit. |>

|>I'm fairly certain the manifold-to-head junction is water-tight. |>I don't know of any other place for it to leak in the valley area. |>

|>Suggestions? |>

|>Rex B in Ft Worth | |Rex: | |Although I haven't seen one of those tubes git a pin hole thru it from inside |out rusting thru-I wonder if its possible? I also like to run some emery cloth |around the area the o-ring seats (female surface). Lastly I only prelube the |o-rings with some assembly lube-NOT that silicone is wrong-I may do that some |day-just haven't up till now. | |Loren Knighton

Loren I looked it over real well for pinholes. No corrosion or perforation to speak of. I used steel wool to clean it up, including and especially the o-ring grooves. Had the fit been tighter I'd have happily used grease, but I thought it was marginal when I trial-fitted it, so I added the silicone for extra measure. Lotta good that did me ;)

Thanks for the input.

Rex:

All I have done-the coolant trickles down the front of the motor over by the power steering pump bracket. Never had one back up into the vee from the weep hole. HTH. Respectfully submitted,

Loren Knighton Woodland, CA.

Under the hood since 1964 Member TRNI IATN

|>Subject: Re: Chrysler 3.0 water leak - Part II |>From: snipped-for-privacy@txol.net (Rex B) |>Date: 7/21/2003 8:16 AM Pacific Standard Time |>Message-id: |>

|>Has anyone here had a water pump fail on a 3.0 v-6? |>When water escapes past the seal and exits the weep hole (asuming |>conventional |>design) where does the water go? |>Down the front (passenger side) of the engine, or back into the vee below the |>intake manifold? | |Rex: | |All I have done-the coolant trickles down the front of the motor over by the |power steering pump bracket. Never had one back up into the vee from the weep |hole. HTH. |Respectfully submitted, | |Loren Knighton

Loren Not what I wanted to hear. I've eliminated the tube as the source. But it is coming from the water pump end, and under pressure it comes out fast.

Last time I put it together, after sealing the tube up with plent of Aviation Permatex, I added water to the radiator slowly with the intake manifold off. When the water level got up almost to the edge of the coolant passages in the heads, I stopped and watched. Within a couple of minutes, I had water in the vee area under the tube. It started on the water pump end, but I never did see where it was coming from. I concluded it must be coming from the water pump, either the weep hole or the mounting flange gasket. There was no sign of any moisture from the head-block gasket joint. This engine got really hot a week or so befor ethe leak started. Is there a seal or gasket which can be damaged by overheating?

My next plan is to fill it up, get it up to temp while keeping water in it (if possible) then add Bar's Leaks and cap it. The hope is that the Bar's will reach and seal the leak before it pukes out too much water. The last desperate measure of a man who's run out of patience :)

Subject: Re: Chrysler 3.0 water leak - Part II From: snipped-for-privacy@txol.net (Rex B) Date: 7/21/2003 12:18 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: I've eliminated the tube as the source. But it

Rex:

Bar's leak might work-but no use taking a chance? I believe yer looking at pulling that pump again and checking it for a tweaked gasket or part of one that missed a bolt hole? Respectfully submitted,

Loren Knighton Woodland, CA.

Under the hood since 1964 Member TRNI IATN

|Rex: | |Bar's leak might work-but no use taking a chance? I believe yer looking at |pulling that pump again and checking it for a tweaked gasket or part of one |that missed a bolt hole?

Loren I have yet to pull the pump. I pulled the intake to get at the water tube in the vee between the cylinder banks. It fits into the back of the waterpump housing and seals with an O-ring at each end. Based on where the water was coming from, I deduced that was the most likely culprit. It appears now it was not leaking. At any rate, I'd bet money the o-rings are now watertight, but I still have water coming from somewhere in the vicinity of the water pump housing. So I have not disturbed the water pump at all, yet, and I'm trying to avoid doing so for now.

"Rex B" wrote

This water pump has a small channel the funnels the leak from the vent hole over to the back side of the block by the power steering pump bracket. I assume that they made it this way so that a coolant leak would not drain all over the timing belt.

Ian

| |"Rex B" wrote | |> Has anyone here had a water pump fail on a 3.0 v-6? |> When water escapes past the seal and exits the weep hole (asuming |conventional |> design) where does the water go? |> Down the front (passenger side) of the engine, or back into the vee below |the |> intake manifold? | |This water pump has a small channel the funnels the leak |from the vent hole over to the back side of the block |by the power steering pump bracket. I assume that they |made it this way so that a coolant leak would not drain |all over the timing belt.

that akes sense. Now that I think about it, the original leak fell from this area. It was only after a few days (while I was getting around tuit) that it started coming out of the vee. Looks like I need to pick up a pump and timing belt.

Thanks to all who responded.

"Rex B" wrote

I'd still be concerned about the coolant in the vee section of the engine. I know you have replaced the o-ring and sealed it all up, but make sure that you recheck that o-ring and the fit of it into the water pump housing. I remember being given the wrong size o-ring by parts years ago on one of these engines and having a good leak because of it.

Ian

From: snipped-for-privacy@txol.net (Rex B) Date: 7/22/2003 1:51 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: >

Looks like I need to pick up a pump and timing belt.

Rex:

This would be a good time to change out the front crankshaft seal-even if the seal isn't passing oil. Be careful not to nick the seal area of the crank.

Respectfully submitted,

Loren Knighton Woodland, CA.

Under the hood since 1964 Member TRNI IATN

| |"Rex B" wrote | |> that makes sense. Now that I think about it, the original leak fell from |this |> area. It was only after a few days (while I was getting around tuit) that |it |> started coming out of the vee. |> Looks like I need to pick up a pump and timing belt. | |I'd still be concerned about the coolant in the vee section |of the engine. I know you have replaced the o-ring and |sealed it all up, but make sure that you recheck that o-ring |and the fit of it into the water pump housing. I remember |being given the wrong size o-ring by parts years ago on |one of these engines and having a good leak because of |it.

Good advice and I think I'm covered there. When I tore it dow the 2nd time I cleaned all the silicone off and dry-fit it. There was an appropriate amount of resistance at both ends, although I would have preferred a little more. I used an O-ring set from FelPro for that application. I could not find alternate O-rings in that diameter with a slightly bigger cross-section, although I probably could if I'd tried harder. At any rate, I'm pretty sure the aviation permatex mades up any deficiencies in that area. I just hope I don't have to take it apart again ;)

| | | | |From: snipped-for-privacy@txol.net (Rex B) |Date: 7/22/2003 1:51 PM Pacific Standard Time |Message-id: > | | Looks like I need to pick up a pump and timing belt. |>

|>Thanks to all who responded. | | |Rex: | |This would be a good time to change out the front crankshaft seal-even if the |seal isn't passing oil. Be careful not to nick the seal area of the crank.

Good point Loren. I presume tht's a trouble spot. I believe I recall some seepage from that end of the motor, so I had in mind to change all the seals anyhow.

|>|This would be a good time to change out the front crankshaft seal-even if the |>|seal isn't passing oil. Be careful not to nick the seal area of the crank. |>

|>Good point Loren. I presume tht's a trouble spot. I believe I recall some |>seepage from that end of the motor, so I had in mind to change all the seals |>anyhow. | | |Good idea to replace both cam seals and the crank seal if you've got it |that far down.

I wonder if those come with a timing set from Fel-Pro?