Chubby Cheddar on Today: There is no reason to use High Octane gasoline

"hls" wrote in news:x6WdnX2SkPgGSofWnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

why is this so hard to get accross!!!! there is no food for fuel problem!!!!!! the corn used for ethanol is not food grade corn, it is used to feed livestock for the most part, and the bybroduct from ethanol is a high grade feed addative so not that much is lost to the actuall ethanol production. any other info is shit fed to the masses by the dam oil compainies and apparently the masses are Gullible and beleive their crap. And currently they are ready to go online with the first bio fuel (read corn stocks\ switch grass\ ect which will be even cheeper ethanol production. If you don`t like ethanol that is one thing, but the other is dam smoke and mirrors crap from the oil companies not wanting to give up any market share. KB

No, they won't. They will advance timing up to the design spec, period.

They absolutely *will* RETARD timing BACK from spec as needed. But don't confuse that with "and they'll also go the other way, beyond spec".

So, that is to say that a family hauler Hyundai will not go wild with

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@e86.GTS:

substantial

Futurama?!?!?!

ethanol is 200 proof and everclear is just 180. (although some workers have been caught sampling it. Nasty. KB

Good point, I misspoke.

Well actually you were somewhat right. The EPA does its Economy Fuel Tests using a very carefully specified 91 octane fuel. So it is in the car manufacturers best interest to design the engine management system to produce the best mileage using that particular fuel as opposed to what comes out of a regular gas pump. And they also now have the capability to design engine management around the other test conditions that are also carefully specified. And besides it isn't just timing that affects knock. Air/fuel ratio and intake air temp and valve timing (variable in some engines) also have some effect on detonation. And that is not all. There is always YMMV factor which includes the different ways people drive as well as the subtle differences that can exist inside an engine that is beyond the control of the computer management system - things like the amount of carbon in the cylinder and the condition of the rings and valves and EGR with respect to sealing. In other words, the only way to really tell what effect higher octane fuel will have, is to try it.

-jim

I agree.

I have another four-cylinder that is in my vintage 3/4 midget (race car). It burns methanol (wood alcohol). Have to clean out fuel line every spring when racing season starts, but other than that it works fine.

But I drive like a Bat out of Hell. Always have. I'm not wreckless, but you're not going to have to worry about me getting out of your way, either. Maybe Toyota engines like it that way. I also don't use 5th gear unless I'm over 50MPH. Always have. And yet, my combined mileage usually equals or bests the EPA "highway" mileage on the sticker...

If not wreckless then what? Are you are wreckful?

Mario Andretti panned me as a chauffeur because I scared the pants off him.

I drive about as fast as conoditions will allow, usually 40-70MPH, occasional gusts to 100+, just for fun, once or twice per car. Fastest has been 130 in my Corolla GTS, next has been 125 in my Scion. More to go in the Scion, but I'm not as indestructable as I was 23 years ago. I'd say 45 is average.

That being said, since I drive just under what conditions allow, people behind me in snowstorms get really pissed off. I usually see the ones that pass me in a snowstorm in a ditch a few miles up the road as I drive by.

That ain't no joke. Usually I'm the slowest guy on the road because I need a clean driving record for work. But last night it had been wet, sloppy snow all day and then I had to drive home at about 3 AM. You wouldn't believe all the idiots tailgating each other on the freeway. One patch of black ice and 15 or more cars would have all been taken out simultaneously. The thing that really got me was the state trooper who passed me and *didn't* pull over the knucklehead who'd just pulled a really squidly combination tailgate/too close lane change/pass on right just a second before. It's bad enough in good conditions, but when it's been warm and snowing all day and now is below freezing? madness.

nate

And who among us is? ;-)

You and me both. It's free entertainment.

Oh, I see a few here and there.

Fools, at best.

I spend my workday on the road, sometimes going from Amherst Mass to Keene NH or even to the ski areas in south central Vermont...

I see ALL kinds. I have an AWD Subaru (beater) with studded snow tires and I STILL piss off the Soccer Moms in the Jeeps who think they're invincable...

See you in the ditch, witch!

I thought it said 190...

I can tell you honestly, it TASTES 200, and it FEELS 500!!!!

Whew! NEVER AGAIN!!!!!

Yeah, that's it. Switch grass. From what I have heard of it it basically grows wild, and is a bit of a nuisance.

Interesting. Thanks!

I have also heard of some guys in Iowa or somewhere that are using bull shit (yes, really, (actually cow) shot to produce energy. They have a plant set up where they compile the cow manure and then draw off the methane, and use the methane to fire boilers, and they are meeting ALL their own energy needs, and the needs of about 10 other close-by households. And a by product is a fertilizer they can sell.

I just remembered, it's in Wisconsin, and it's a farm where they make cheese.

They ought to think of setting up such an operation in Washington, there's PLENTY of BS there! ;)

Again, thanks.

That's a totally different process.

Making pure alcohol from starch is a process that has been around for a few centuries now, and it's pretty well-known and all of the bugs are out of it. College students can do it in their dorm rooms with minimal equipment.

The switchgrass thing is dependent on having a process to convert cellulose to ethanol. We can do that in the laboratory, but nobody has actually done it on an industrial scale yet although there's apparently a pilot plant in the works. There's a big difference between a laboratory process and an industrial facility.

If we can actually get a commercially viable cellulose to ethanol process, we can use all kinds of waste materials. Grass clippings, tree bark, sugarcane waste. Even the stalks from those corn plants after the corn has been harvested.

Right now the most economical process for making ethanol is through hydration of ethylene gas made from petroleum. It's so cheap that in Mexico you can buy gallon jugs of aguardiente made from petroleum for a few bucks. It smells like a hangover in a bottle.

In the US it's illegal to sell such alcohol for drinking purposes, and on top of that the enormous corn subsidies have made ethanol from fermentation and distillation much cheaper than they otherwise would be. I don't know if this is a good or a bad thing, it just is.

--scott