Coolant and ATF fluid changes on Toyota

According to the Genuine Fluids page at an online service garage called Arts Automotive:

"Toyota is claiming their Type T-IV ATF does not need to be replaced under 'normal operating conditions'. We strongly disagree. We recommend changing Type T4 fluid every 15K miles, just like regular ATF. Type T4 is not particularly expensive, and the total cost of a transmission drain and fill is only slightly more than a motor oil change." [end quote]

What do the Toyota experts here think? Should I just do a partial drain-and-fill (no flushing) of the ATF now after 24,000 miles on my '06 Camry, or just wait for 100,000 miles or perhaps 60,000 miles. The car is 3.5 years old, and I didn't notice any bad odor or discoloration of the red ATF when I looked at it yesterday via the dipstick.

That was an ATF question, but the following concerns coolant.

The web site for Arts Automotive (a service garage) has this to say about Toyota's Super Long Life coolant:

"We recommend replacing the coolant every 2-3 years or 30K, even with Toyota Super Long Life Coolant. We think it's better to be safe than sorry. Maybe we'll sing a different tune when Toyota releases their Super-Duper Long Life Coolant :) [end quote]

Why would the Camry manual allow you to go 100,000 miles or 10 years with the factory fill of Toyota Super Long Life coolant, but only allow you to go 5 years or 50,000 miles with every refill thereafter. I would guess both the factory fill and your own refills are pre-diluted with distilled water, not tap water--at least if you buy the jugs of genuine Toyota 50/50 coolant.

Anyway, is 50,000 miles and 5 years still too long to wait? Maybe I ought to do a simple drain-and-fill (not flush) of the coolant every

3 years or 30,000 miles?
Reply to
Built_Well
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Any recommendations that exceed what the manufactuer reccommends and that are made by a garage that makes money by doing services, esp maint, are suspect. They are just looking to line their pockets. If the manufactuer says 100K you will be very safe doing it at half that if you want extra security. Same for the coolant.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

Dipstick always look better than the drained oil I must say from experience. How does it look on clean tissue *compared* to new fluid on clean tissue?

Toyota doesn't expect the first owner to keep their cars past about 4 years. If that fits you, by all means stick to the factory schedule and save money. However, if you keep a car longer than that, as in "2005 the overall median age for automobiles was 8.9 years", then you may want to perform more frequent preventative maintenance on it.

The Type IV ATF is just a re-labeled conventional (dino) Mobil-3309 ATF. Nothing special about it. For about the same price I'd rather use Mobil-1 Fully Synthetic ATF (the new formulation). I'd think Mobil knows that it's Mobil-1 ATF is compatible with it's dino Mobil-3309.

Conventional ATF usually don't last over 50-60K miles under normal service. So 30K miles under normal service for a dino oil would be a

*safe bet*, since Aisin transmission like to load up the fluild with particles, so 15K isn't unreasonable on the A-series and indeed is what Toyota specified for severe service.

However, T-IV is for the U-series clunkers that don't seem to put as much crap into the fluid as the older A-series. So maybe 30K? You decide. Synthetics are good for 100-120K miles under normal service. However, 60K miles under severe service. Maybe use Mobil-1 in your refill?

Reply to
john

Now, think about it. The manufacturer has a vested interest in the vehicle not lasting TOO long, therefore, it would be in the interest of the manufacturer to recommend LESS maintenance that what would be the ideal amount.

Reply to
Sharx35

Toyota pre-mixed Pink, which is basically half of GM's Dexcool (without the fast acting 2EHA plasticizer acid), showed "significant weight loss" (metal corrosion) in lab tests. It's not as good a corrosion fighter as the red, but the red has the disadvantage of just a 2-year service life.

If you plan to trade in the car after 4 years, no need to change the coolant. Otherwise I personally would do at 3-4 years for 5-year coolants (Pink, Dexcool, Preston All-Makes, G12, G-05, etc). Some people even drive with 200K mile old timing belt. Your call.

Generally you don't want 2EHA in cooling systems not properly designed to work with it. So stick with Red or Pink.

Reply to
john

BTW, your 06 Camry with the 2.4L engine? It has the problem of head bolt coming loose because 1-3 head bolt threads disintegrate in the back near the manifold insulation.

Is this corrosion from water jacket? Don't know, but it typically happens between 50-100K miles, even maintained at the dealer. Looks like Toyota wants to charge owners $4000-6000 to replace the engine if out of warranty. Good luck.

Posted by: mag176 The car was dealer maintained for the first 47,000 miles, I took it over after that because we moved. What the tech is telling me is that the gasket blew because the head bolts are loose. They are pulling the threads right out of the block. Itâ??s going to have a short block installed later in the week. Im told they are fixing the ones that are caught under warranty, tough luck to everyone else. If anyone can hook me up with info about other owners,tsb or any like info I would appreciate it. Thanks again, Mark

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Reply to
john

I think that the folks who designed and built your car are probably more knowledgeable and have spend more time, money, and effort on R&D on your car than Arts Garage, who may not have the resources to even acquire a Toyota franchise.

If you really want to go overboard, change the ATF at 60,000 miles.

Cars that come with the pink Toyota Super Long Life coolant should not be refilled with red Toyota Long Life coolant, although cars that came with the red Long Life can be filled with Super Long Life. It is safe to follow Toyota's recommendations on replacement intervals.

The Super Long Life comes pre-mixed so it should not be diluted.

Reply to
Ray O

Reply to
john

I think that you are overdoing this for some strange reason.

A modern vehicle should be able to go 50-100,000 miles without changing ATF fluid.

A modern vehicle should be able to go 50-100,000 miles without changing coolant.

Any mass retailer, Wal-mart,etc, can sell you the fluid or coolant that you would need to do this.

Toyota only cares that you spend your money on their products.

The only thing that changing fluids early means is that you changed the fluid early.

Forget the internet and drive...

Reply to
es8m

I agree with your point, but I would change the ATF **AT** 50K miles, not somewhere between 50 and 100. 15k is just silly though.

Coolant should be changed based on time, not mileage. Old green stuff is good for 2 years, modern OAT 5.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

As a consumer, I tend to AGREE that if you go by the book, you're probably overdoing fluid changes.

Last time I did a pan drop, my ATF fluid looked New and the filter was in New condition, but since I had the thing apart, I changed the fluid/filter -anyhow-.

But it IS an opportunity to look at the magnets in the ATF tray to see what kind of metal debris is coming out of the transmission. Fines are _normal_. Chunks are not. It is something you want to consider. In my case, I cleaned the magnets of fines and put it all back together again.

I have 40,000 miles on my coolant right now, and might wait until the Fall to change it, only because the corrosion inhibitors are the first thing to go. But the system seems to be running OK. It holds at a steady 200 degrees F.

Serpentine Belt: that's another story. to be on the Safe Side, I might change that this summer, but there is no sign yet that I =need= to.

Same with battery, plugs, plug wires, air filter, PCV valve...etc etc. As long as they're not giving any problems, not causing any MIL's, no sense in doing anything with them other than just monitoring them whenever I lift the hood.

Then again, I own a Lincoln Mercury. At first I was afraid of voiding my Warranty by not keeping receipts from maintenance, and then I decided the hell with it. I'll go by what the vehicle =does= and take it from there. No problems to date at 40K.

Nick

Reply to
Nicholas

I don't agree with that statement. Most owners fall in the "severe service" category and don't realize it. (read your owner's manual, and what qualifies as "severe service...")

Older German cars used to have reasonable service recommendations in the manual, but I have heard that that is not true anymore.

Without knowing the specific vehicle, I'd probably stick to the following:

- ATF or manual trans gear oil - 50K miles

- coolant - old style (green) 2 years, new style (OAT) 5 years (if you can; I've never had a car that ran that long without a cooling system component failure)

- brake fluid - 2 years (this is often recommended to be left in for life, I really disagree with this one)

- other fluids (rear axle, etc.) 100K miles or less if you are a

*really* harsh driver

I also tend to pop for the synthetic fluids for lubricants, I figure a little extra protection for a little extra money can't hurt.

My last company car was maintained "by the book" and I could really tell a degradation in shift quality by the time it was turned in at 80K. Daily use in a heavy traffic urban area really takes its toll. New car I like better, that'll get a fluid change at 50K whether the company pays for it or not.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

You know I am not a strong fan of OAT, Nate. The glycol can begin to oxidize on either of them if air can get into a system (which it can through the expansion tank).

I wouldn't run either type longer than 2-4 years.

Reply to
HLS

I don't know what you were driving for a company car. I have a heavy Mercury with a Vulcan engine, OHV. I use Pennzoil Platinum Synthetic for the oil, and there is no way it needs to be changed today, but I'm going to anyhow, weather permitting. Mainly to get a new filter on. If I'm going to put on a new filter, I might as well change the *oil* at the same time.

You do realize that *most* people don't follow any service schedule at all? And their cars and trucks are still running. Then again, they might be trading in for a new vehicle every 3 years.

I check my fluid levels and go from there. What I want to do today is read the voltage differential between the engine block and the antifreeze, which is a trick on my *sealed* system with no radiator cap. This references the process of electrolysis which can eat away a water pump impeller.

I can say if I had a _small_ engine that had to do a lot of rpm's to push the vehicle around, I would give it more attention than I do to the one I own.

I know for certain that I'm going to have new Antifreeze in there before the summer is over though. Just because it was supposed to be changed at 30K and I've run it to 40K. I'm going to leave THAT job to the shop, because I don't have the equipment for proper disposal of the used stuff. Presuming it won't cost me more than $75. If it does...I'll have to figure out a way to do it myself.

Nick

Reply to
Nicholas

In the first year or two of the 2AZ-FE's production, the block threads weren't formed completely to the top of the holes. That was corrected and I never saw a headbolt problem after that. This 2004 Camry post would seem to disagree with my ascertation, but the main problem was addressed early on. The 2004 is probably a fluke, not representative of the later models. Speaking of small samples, I'm running a 2001 Highlander with 110k miles and no problems so far - and have never

*thought* about the potential headbolt problem even once (until now) :-)

Toyota MDT in MO

Reply to
Toyota MDT in MO

You'd be surprised at how many manufacturers list a 2 year interval for brake fluid replacement. It's not typically listed under the normal or severe service recommendations so it can be easy to miss. Brake fluid replacement usually falls under the category of "periodic maintenance".

Toyota MDT in MO

Reply to
Toyota MDT in MO

RTFM.

Check your owners' manual for Toyota's definition of 'normal operating conditions'.

If you read carefully and acurately, the manner in which most cars are used actually EXCEEDS 'normal operating conditions'. Continue reading until you get to the definition for 'severe' service, or some equivalent phrase that includes a description of temperatures, stop-and-go, and other environments that exist in the real world. It's more effective for modern automatic transmissions to have the fluid and filter changed at something like 30,000 to 50,000 miles. Again, see the manual.

Reply to
the fly

==========

Thanks for your post. Makes me feel better :-)

Wish I could say I was completely freed of concern, though. Like that writer at either CamryForums.com or ToyotaNation.com , I had visions of my Camry living to 300,000 miles or 500,000 miles. Now not so sure :-(

Does your '01 Highlander have the plastic intake manifold with foam rubber insulation between the manifold and block/head like the problem Toyotas, or an aluminum manifold? One speculation is this cheaper plastic manifold is causing a high heat spot which can lead to

3 nearby head bolts working loose. Maybe it's a combination of factors at play: the plastic manifold with foam rubber insulation and the ill-formed threads that you mentioned.

An '01 Lexus car was described as having its head bolts work loose, too. Don't know if the Lexus used a plastic intake manifold.

Reply to
Built_Well

My 2008 Avalon doesn't even had a dipstick for the tranny. The owners manual says to "inspect" the transmission fluid at 30K miles and then every

30K after that. I bet I can predict what the dealer will tell me at 30K miles, 60K miles, etc. So where is the trans. fill point when there is no dipstick?

Tim K

Reply to
tkloth

I'd look for a plug bolt somewhere on the case above the pan.

Reply to
Ray O

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