driving with a bad lifter?

Yes, no, maybe...

There is no realistic way to predict what will happen when a known failed component is allowed to operate in a failed state.

Two things will happen for sure;

1) The camshaft will kick the lifters out of their bore, oil pressure will drop and odds are, the engine will fail rapidly. 2) The fuel injector will continue to deliver fuel to that cylinder, eventually enough fuel will accumulate that the cylinder will hydrolock, the fuel will wash the oil from the rings/cylinder bore and the engine will suffer more catastrophic failure.

Well, (I thought) it kind of goes without saying that you'd unplug the injector. And remove the push rods, though I didn't say that, either.

WRT the lifters being blown out, I was kind of thinking/hoping that the 'anti-rotation brackets' might retain them. I'd only seen a sketch of these, so I don't know. However, the service manual says to remove the bracket in order to replace the lifter.

G

George wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

You have GOT to have an illuminated MIL.

Why would you remove the rocker arms? You've got one happy exhaust valve right now; why put it out of work? Are three quiet but lumpy cylinders better than four smooth but noisy ones?

If you currently consider the car as junk, and have AAA (and a cell phone) for when it finally does crap out at an inconvenient place and time, then driving it as-is is not a problem.

It all depends on your priorities, not on the car itself.

Sounds like the valve inside the lifter has likely failed.

That engine has the rockers with the bolt going down through the support boss to the head correct?

Not really sure of a fix for that other than a new lifter. You could try a couple things, One would be to find a speed shop that has some lash caps, these are caps that get put on the valve stem tips for various reasons (stem material soft, roller tipped rockers, wear caps)

The other would be to weld up the tip of the rocker arm that hits the valve and grind it back to fit. Just make sure you polish it smooth.

Or a combination of the two.

Another way that might work would be to see if anyone makes an adjustable pushrod that would fit in there. A few makes used them.

Pulling the rockers is a bad ides. The lifters need to stay in a certain position in the bore to regulate oil flow in the engine. Without the valve springs holding them down they can come out of the bore enough to wipe out the oil pressure.

Yes

Thanks. That was very helpful.

George

I mentioned the old Pontiac engines that had these studs pressed in rather than screwed in. Dont know how this car handles the issue.

It has each rocker on a separate shaft with a casting that mounts to the head with a single bolt. Non adjustable. Just install the bolt and torque it to spec. Most of the newer vehicles use similar systems.

Further testing: I found a piece of (steel) flat stock, 0.1" thick, that just fit between the rocker and the valve stem. With the engine off, that made it tight. But, with the engine running, it's as noisy as before.

So, among other things, it doesn't look like the lash cap would solve anything. At the same time, does this tell me anything about where the problem is? What I have is ...

- Much noise. Listening with a stick, it seems to emanate from that lifter/push rod/rocker arm.

- The rocker arm has ~.1" of lash, with the engine off.

- The push rod is bringing oil up - possibly even more than the others.

- Taking out the rocker arm lash doesn't affect the noise.

After looking at some cars, the idea of replacing the lifter is getting more appealing. But, I'm wondering if the problem may be more than that.

Any insights would be appreciated.

Thanks, George

Been through this a few times. My observations. You have 3 choices.

1. Fix the engine. This is the choice that can be cheapest, but can also be the most costly. If its just a bad lifter, it could be a cheap fix. Make sure the cam lobe isn't flat by measuring lifter movement before you open it up. If the lobe is worn you're looking at even more work. I've done a complete rebuild on a 352 and in parts it was the cheapest way, but it cost me many hours of personal labor. Then the shop that I sent the heads to did a bad job or no job on the valve seals, so it sucked oil at high vacuum for the rest of its life. Ran sweet, but I was young then. Wouldn't think of doing it myself now. In your case you'd have the same engine with the same miles and one new lifter if that's all you have to fix. BTW, I did the heads on a 350 with 90k miles once, and the mains were gone a year later. Junked it It's just a chancy proposition no matter how you look at it. The most "worrisome."

1. New engine.
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   Didn't look hard, but I think it's a long block for ,695.29 If you pay a good mech to do the swap it'll end up costing close to 3 grand. But you'll have a 36 mo 100k mile warranty engine. I did this once with a late 80's Chevy Wagon my big kid had. The Goodwrench Olds 305 cost about 00 and my mech's labor about 00, but he had a lot of cleanup to do because the old engine was blowing oil like crazy. One of a batch had soft cylinder walls from the factory. Only had about 65k miles on it. Everything, including the 4-bbl carb was fouled up. This was a very clean plush wagon, hard to find, so it was worth replacing the engine to us. Can't say that for a '99 Cavalier. You could find a good runner for

2-3 grand if you look around. But if you really like a car and rust isn't an issue, a new engine is the way to go.

1. Junk it and replace it. I've done that for most my cars that rust or get serious engine problems. Had a '71 Chevy Malibu with a 307 that burned a valve. Car was otherwise fine, but I didn't like its tinniness and never liked driving it, quick as it was. Didn't like the color either. I just junked it. Might have been cheaper overall to do the heads, but I hated that car.

Not an easy decision. Good luck.

--Vic

ps. The new 305 I put in the Chevy Wagon lasted about a month. It was running fine. Kid came out of his work teaching school, car was gone, Never found. And no comprehensive insurance either. Win some, lose some.

Seems to me it is likely it is not a collapsed lifter, but it is pretty hard to diagnose through some one else's eyes. Here's a question for you

- If you had a broken valve spring would you be able to spot that? How about a stuck valve that isn't closing all the way? If that engine has roller lifter it could be the roller or the bearing that is busted. You should really get a good diagnosis before you wade in over your head.

-jim

It is possible it could be a weak valve spring. cuhulin

I'm pretty sure I'd recognize a broken spring, though I'll look again. As for a stuck valve, ... I don't know that I've ever had one, but I think I'd see something other than the noise. Engine power is normal, no backfires (it's an exhaust), and we've driven it enough to get the engine warm, so I think it would have burned?

Anyway, ..

After some more running with my 'shim' under the rocker arm, the lifter tightened up. (!) (ie, the lash came out.) The noise was the same, though - no magic.

It is a roller lifter. I can imagine that's involved; though, I can't picture how to account for all the play that was in the rocker, and then for that to go away, but still explain the noise.

As in my other post tonight, I think it's time to just let it go.

Thanks much to all who posted.

George

Thanks.

Logic says, junk it - lots of rust. Would you pull the head without getting it machined? Probably not, I'd guess. That would be the clincher - I could maybe talk myself into gaskets & bolts, though the car isn't really worth even that. Nor the time. Just for the rust, we'd have to replace it before winter.

G

replying to George, Sheila Johnson wrote: i hear tapping in my chrysler 300 2011 dealers says 12 rockers and lifters need replacing but the tapping seems to only be coming from 1 spot on the right side