E-15 gas.

This morning, Peter Landry was talking to a local radio talk show host guy.They said E-15 gas is coming. cuhulin

Reply to
J R
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Considering the pimps we have in congress, I wouldnt doubt it.

Reply to
hls

"hls" wrote in news:S9mdnYFcMcz1a- snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

sign me up, E 20 to 30 works great in all my stuff, except small engines. KB

Reply to
Kevin Bottorff

wow, the oiligopolist's dream - the guy that doesn't mind paying more and getting less! because that's what all the "E"'s mean with their lower calorie content.

Reply to
jim beam

I guess you could buy technical alcohol and blend it with gasoline...Is there any benefit to you to do this, assuming of course that you dont get arrested for failure to pay fuel taxes?

Reply to
hls

Not true.

You don't pay more because the gasoline blended with alcohol is lower octane fuel which is cheaper to refine. And the alcohol is cheaper than the gasoline.

And some vehicles get better mileage with alcohol blends.

Reply to
jim

not unless you want lower mpg's. ethanol has a lower calorie content than gasoline, thus, to get the same output as you get with gasoline, you need to burn more of it.

Reply to
jim beam

no, the oilco's sell it for the same price or more. and not only do they blend in ethanol, they blend in water too because with ethanol in the mix, some water becomes soluble.

no, it's considerably more expensive. and that's before you take the subsidies the taxpayer has to cough up into account.

no, you just believe propaganda.

Reply to
jim beam

jim beam wrote in news:ILCdnetwSNc6GOfTnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@speakeasy.net:

No your a idiot. I have tested it in my own vehicles and all but one gets BETTER milage with a 20% blend. and it is quite a bit cheeper to purchase also. Besides the supposed subsidy is going away in dec. KB

Reply to
Kevin Bottorff

jim beam wrote in news:eN6dnRvKiI5mHufTnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@speakeasy.net:

Not always, tests prove it. KB

Reply to
Kevin Bottorff

The US produced alcohol is not cheaper than gasoline. It is however subsidized with US tax payer dollars.The lower octane gasoline blended with the ethanol is not so much cheaper to produce that it makes up for the higher cost of the ethanol. I suppose you could argue that using US produced alcohol to replace imported oil it is agood thing from a National Security prespective, but I think it is a hard arguement to make. The biggest winners in the ethanol scam are some corn farmers, ADS, and the politicians they have bought. If you truly believe ethanol laced gasoline is cheaper than the good old straight gasoline, then you should demand that Congress eliminate all ethanol subsidies immeadiately. No need to pay oil companies to do something they would do without the subsidy.

Name one. I suppose if you blended ethanol with true 89 octane regular gasoline, you could make the arguement that the resulting mixture would have a higher octane rating and thereby allow some engines to run more efficienty and get higher fuel mileage. But, in fact, the gasoline / ethanol blends sold at stations only have the same octane ratings as regular straight gasoline, so there won't be any benefit there. And since ethanol has considerably less energy per gallon, I can't see any way that an engine could provide more miles per gallon on the blend (assuming the octane rating is the same as the straight gasoline you are using as a comparison).

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

Where do you get a 20% blend?

Around here I have only two choices - gasoline that may contain up to 10% ethanol (and almost certainly does) and E85 (85% alcohol). The nearest station that sells E85 has it priced about 6% lower than regular (E10), however, you can go two miles down the road and buy regular (E10) for the same price as the E85, so I figure the price is a wash. And for sure E85 has a much lower energy content than even E10. I can't imagine anyone would claim they get better mileage on E85 than on E10. As for E20 - never seen it, but I cannot beleive it would be better than true regualr gasoline with the same octane rating, or even the E10 crap they force us to buy. I'd have to see accurate records collected over a significant period before I'd be convinced that you got better mileage using a 20% ethanol blend (assuming you are comparing it to regualr gasoline with the same octane rating). It is just not reasonable to expect this. In Energy department tests, vehicle using E20 got,on average, 7% worse fuel mileage than when running E10 (which is already giving on average around 3% lower fuel economy than true regular gasoline). Becasue of the way ethanol enhanced gasoline affects the feedback system of modern cars, I think you need to monitor fule usage over a number of tankfuls to get accurate fuel mileage results. I think a one tank switch can give erroneous results.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

"C. E. White" wrote in news:j5f8jt$gdd$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

we have some blender pumps here. I can get 10,20,30,50, or 85. the university of Minn. did some tests and found some cars get better milage on e20 to30 so I have been doing some myself and found it to be true that some do get better with e20, e30 was usually about the same and haven`t tried higher because I don`t have flex fuel so it gets too far out of range higher than that for the system to handle. KB

Reply to
Kevin Bottorff

"C. E. White" wrote in news:j5f6im$3mr$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

my 98 ranger 4.0 get 1 mpg better on e20, my 04 3.0 ranger gets the same as e10, and my 07 fusion 4 cyl gets 1 mpg less on e20. I figure two out of three aint bad. KB

I suppose if you blended ethanol with true 89 octane regular

where I am that is not true, it is blended with reg gas and is 89 octane. I agree the 87 blend is crap. used it once and the car ran terrible, pinged, got lousy milage. the problem is they use shit gas to blend so you can not get a good quality if you start with crap to get the 87 blend. KB

so there won't be any benefit

Reply to
Kevin Bottorff

Maybe if you are in Alaska.

Where I am ethanol is $2.89/gal and the cost of E85 is about 50 cents cheaper than regular.

And if you think octane doesn't cost anything to oil producers then why is high octane always more expensive? And why are mid-east oil producers importing ethanol to boost octane in their domestic gasoline markets? The cost savings to refiners to produce low octane E10 base fuel is about the same difference as the energy content difference. So even if you don't get better mileage there is no increased cost.

Currently the EPA does not allow US car makers to test fuel economy with ethanol blends. If they did you would see more cars designed to run more efficiently on ethanol blends.

In Brazil they do allow cars to be tested with ethanol and fuel efficiency with ethanol blends is a selling point for cars made for the Brazilian market.

Reply to
jim

How many tankfuls did you run per blend? I think you need to do at least 3 tankfuls (more is better) to get a representative average (assuming consistent driving conditions and pattern). Single tank averages are worthless. As mentioned above the DOE tested E20 and on average got 7% worse mileage than with E10.

I'd would not trust anything cooked up by Minnesota regarding ethonal performance. I don't really trust the DOE either, but given the Government ridiculous pro-ethanol bent, I figure they wouldn't admit E20 was 7% worse than E10 unless it was really really bad.

Since you believe E20 did better than E10, what is your explanation for this improvement? Surely you understand E20 has significanty less energy content than E10 (and much much less than straight gasoline). Maybe you could get a slight improvent if the E20 has a higher octane rating, but this at best could only slightly offset the much lower energy contnet. Over the short term, switching to an ethanol blend can fool the engine management system of a modern fuel injected vehicle, resulting in a very lean mixture and temporarily higher mileage, but over time the system will compensate and the mileage will decay.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

the only way you can improve yield from an ethanol mix is to increase compression ratio. last i checked, there were no variable compression ratio vehicles on the market. we have to conclude that mr buttoff is therefore both ignorant of the facts, and can't do simple fuel consumption arithmetic.

Reply to
jim beam

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