energy conserving oil

Engine friction contributes only a couple of percent to losses at higher power settings. However, at very low power settings, the percent rises relatively. So engine friction in slow speed driving, as in some city driving, can be a more important factor in milage. So mfgs of both engines and lubricants are doing a lot these days to reduce friction.

There is another factor, which I believe is still in advanced development. If we could run engines hotter than even current ones do, we could improve milage. However, in addition to needing higher temp metal alloys, we would need higher temp oils.

The so-called adiabatic engine, completely uncooled, would be a great milage boost. But attempts so far have been stymied by lack of a really high temp lubricant. Petroleum oils will definitely not hack it. Note that same problem exists in some turbocharged cars- oil cokes in bearings.

See:

From

"Oils labeled as "Energy Conserving" have passed the test that measures an oil's ability to conserve energy. Widespread use of engine oils with this designation should result in an overall saving of fuel in the vehicle fleet as a whole, but a particular vehicle operator may not experience a fuel savings as a result of using these oils."

Ed

Nope, "Energy Conserving" and "Energy Conserving II" have specific meanings within the API engine oil approval program. "Energy Conserving" oils are those which increase fuel economy by at least 1.5% compared to a specified standard test oil, in a specified test protocol. "Energy Conserving II" oils are those which increase fuel economy by at least 2.7% compared to the specified standard test oil in the specified test protocol.

VW's North American owner's manuals are rather well known for amusing little fairytales. If you're reading your manual correctly, this is one of them.

They don't. All 10w30 engine oils are properly referred to as "multigrade", "multiweight", "multiviscosity", etc. The "Energy Conserving" or "Energy Conserving II" designation implies absolutely nothing about the oil's thermal stability or resistance.

DS

You don't mention what year it is or whether it's a gas or diesel engine, but here are some thoughts...

I wonder if that's a pyto and/or a bit of off-Deutsch that crept into translation. (Or a misinterpretation of a graphic?)

If it really is the spec, it doesn't make sense to me on the face of it. Just about everybody uses multigrade these days for street applications -- the choice of multigrade *range* is where you take temperature into account. And 10W30 is a very common choice for summer or (depending on model and severity of winter) even year-round use in healthy passenger-car gasoline engines.

The energy-conserving part is a somewhat separate issue. I'd guess that more 5W30 oils (another common choice, especially for the cooler months -- at all times in some cars) than 10W30s would carry the Energy Conserving I or II ratings, since a lighter viscosity means less internal resistance in the engine. Maybe that's what the manual writers were thinking of. However, you really take these three steps in order:

1. Choose a service level appropriate for your car, or higher/newer. Usually you can guess this by year.
2. Choose the appropriate viscosity range based on expected operating conditions and the recommendations in the manual. Again, 10W30 is a very common choice for a summer or year-round oil in a gas engine in decent shape.
3. If you want to, pick an Energy Conserving oil from the resulting shortlist.

See for instance

If you are attuned to the subtleties of what your car is telling you, chances are that you *will* notice small changes in gauge readings under at least some circumstances, and in engine note, when changing brands or viscosities of motor oil. Now, is it showing you alarmingly low oil pressure, or just a slight difference? And is there a knocking sound or valve clatter accompanying the low excursions?

Finally: got the right amount in there? new filter of good quality? no leaks or squirts?

Best of luck,

--Joe

I thought the "Energy Conserving II" designation was phased out in the late 80's with API SJ. The standard sometimes changes with a new API service category, and is only meaningful with that category. The "reference oils" used has also changed. It used to be a 20W-30, but one of them is a PAO-based 5W-30.

The current fuel economy increase requirements are as follows (Sequence VIB aka ASTM D6837):

0W-20/5W-20: 2.3% over refoil1 /2.0% over refoil2 0W-30/5W-30: 1.8% over refoil1 /1.5% over refoil2 10W-30/other: 1.1% over refoil1 /0.8% over refoil2

Apparently the tests aren't cheap either - in the $25,000 range for a complete Sequence VIB test).

The way the European ACEA standards are made is different. They have the A3 standard which is supposed to be for extended drain oils, the A1 standard for normal-drain fuel saving oils, and the A5 for extended drain fuel saving oils. Many oils are labelled as meeting A1/A5, but the standard is mutually exclusive with A3.

VW has actually kind of gone off the deep end recently. Their list of North American sold VW 502.00 oils for gasoline engines only includes synthetic oils (PAO/ester/Group III). Owners of their latest TDI (Pump Duse) engines are scrambling to find their 505.01 standard oil. VW virtually claims "You're asking for it if you even top off with anything but a 505.01 oil". The exact wording is, "severe engine failure that can lead to serious injury or death".

That should read, "late 90's".

'90s, it's possible.

Which Scamsoil droids bitch about constantly.

...recently...?

Prezisshun Churrman Enchineerung.

This is also true of any "load" on the engine, caused by friction or some other loads such as electrical loads. A load has a larger percentage impact on slow speed driving, such as rush hour stop & go traffic, etc.

I corrected that.

The testing costs are what give Infineum and Lubrizol a healthy market for their pretested additive packs. Just add your own base oil, piggyback on Lubrizol's test results for API licensing requirements, and slap on your own label. It's almost like cake mix.

Oh - here's where I got the $25K figure:

"The failures are perplexing because the unnamed suppliers of each proffered oil had reported valid VIB test data, indicating good GF-4 performance. The failures are expensive, too. Each VIB test run costs nearly $25,000 and was absorbed by each participating laboratory, so together they represent an investment of $250,000.

The 505.01 standard seems to apply to the 2004+ TDI (turbo diesel) as well as the Audi RS6 - a 450 HP twin-turbo gasoline supercar.

"What special engine oil is required for the RS 6?

The high-performance RS 6 requires special synthetic engine oil, which must conform to Volkswagen Oil Standard 505 01 (5W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil). Failure to use engine oil for the RS 6 engine that expressly conforms to Volkswagen Oil Standard 505 01 (5W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil) can cause engine failure on the highway that can cause a crash and serious personal injury. RS 6 owners should also note the following:

? Never use any amount of engine oil in the engine thatdoes not conform to Volkswagen Oil Standard 505 01 (5W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil). ? Always carry with you an extra quart of engine oil that conforms to Volkswagen Oil Standard 505 01 (5W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil) in case you must top off the oil while on the road. Never use any other kind of engine oil in your vehicle, not even to top off the oil level. We have provided you with a quart of the approved oil in the luggage compartment. ? If you use engine oil that does not expressly conform to Volkswagen Oil Standard 505 01 (5W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil), very serious and very expensive damage to your vehicle's engine will occur. Your Limited New Vehicle Warranty will not cover engine damage caused by using the wrong engine oil."

VW and Audi dealers were charging around $6-8 liter for this stuff - usually Castrol TXT 505.01. There's a list of about 30 oils that meet it, but for all intensive purposes, they're specific for this particular application. I've heard from some Europeans that mostly VW/Audi dealers carry any of them, save a few VW repair shops.

"Owners of newer TDIs know that your engines require a special oil, meeting VW spec 505.01. There have been very limited choics[sp] here in the US as far as brands, and they are all expensive.

We lobbied long and hard to get more choices for you, and here is the first fruit of those efforts."

They also have Elf Excellium DID for $7.50/liter.

| > completely uncooled, would be a great milage boost

Impossible ; fuel & intake air (

ignition coil ( copper's resistance rises with temperature ) fittedabove cylinder head must all be as cool as possible to maximisetorque i.e. efficiency. How to keep these 3 things cool in such ahot engine ?

| I am very surprised that oils | with the same rating can have such different temperature applicability.

An "energy conserving" oil likely has fullerene ( solid, graphite soot ) added, so when oil is very thin, its solid content will still lubricate well, so this composite oil can lubricate @ higher temperature.

| a particular vehicle operator may not | experience a fuel savings as a result of using these oils.

Impossible ; my Mitsubishi 4G15P engine's petrol consumption visibly dropped ( petrol gauge indicator significantly dropped 15% slower with mileage, using the same tank of petrol : all BP RON97 unadulterated ) after I changed oil from Duckham*20w/50 ( API SF/CD ) to Bardahl 10w /40 ( API SL/CF

, & I estimate as ¾ more slippery than * ), + 4 hr usage after oil change, i.e. when the Bardahl oil eventually reached engine's steel surfaces.

These engines MUST be Diesels. Otherwise incoming charge would ignite as soon as it entered cylinder. So, fuel charge does indeed ignite spontaneously, not injected until proper moment. No spark plugs nor coil. Actually, I suppose that Ford Proco engine could operate that way. Merely mount coils external to engine. The adiabatic engine has insulating interior anyway. BTW, I remember when it was NORMAL that coils were external- mounted on firewall or fender liner :-)

No. An oil gets the "energy conserving" rating based on its viscosity (thick oils never get it) and on its coefficient of friction as measured by a standardized testing process.

AMSOIL Synthetic Xl series

Here we go with the scamsoil again...

I hold master's in Engineering though Electronics, it probably means I am not too stupid, I can give you a ton of artciels and other - PETROLEUM/AUTOMOTIVE Engineers personal life quest for th ebest oil all converge on AMSOIL. MOBIL is the next best but not #1 as they like to scam you