Engine oil and Sludge

The problem with asking about which oil is best is you'll get 11 different opinions if you ask 10 people.

I'm a car guy, but not a mechanic, so here's my opinion...

Regular cars under regular conditions - follow the manual.

The wife's Beretta has been getting oil changes around every 3-4 months since 97 with Pennzoil 5w30 and either wix or AC Delco filters. Runs about as good as an 18 year old 240,000km 3.1 can.

I've only killed one street motor - the 2.5 in my Fiero. Nylon timing gear + 200 miles at redline (Montana in 1996) = failure. Was running Mobil 1 synthetic at the time.

I just can't use the cheap no-name stuff though, even though I know it's the same. It just feels wrong - it's like screw top wine - you know it's just as good as the stuff in a corked bottle, but it's just not "right".

I've been using Pennzoil exclusively in my cars (with the exception of the Fiero incident) since 1995 and this is what's happened to them:

84 Fiero -> sold with busted transmission 90 Beretta -> still have it. Still runs fine. Motor will outlast the body. 90 Chev 1/2 Ton -> still have it. Starting to make lifter noise. Was my father-in-law's farm work truck for 15 years. Odometer broke at 200,000km back in about 2003. 01 Trans Am -> bought new, driven only in summer. Pennzoil synthetic. 100hp Nitrous kit for the strip. 86 Jimmy -> rusted into nothing, sold engine to uncle. Had 260,000km on it. Probably still running. 02 Subaru Legacy -> only had a year and a half. Ask me in another year when I do the timing belt.

Ray

This same factor was one of the proposed causes for the Toyota engine failures when the oil sludged or gelled. Toyota said that failure to change oil frequently enough was a factor in every case, BUT there was also a situation with changes to the PCV system which were also implicated.

In all likelihood, it was a little of both.

The OP's problem would have to be something precipitated by more than just short drives, type of oil, etc, since the OP changed oil religiously. I think you have hit the nail on the head.

But, there are some very obvious restrictions on how this can be accomplished. For instance, you can't just seal up the crankcase and expect that to work. If you can't figure out why that won't work look at what happened to the OP. The phrase "positive crankcase ventilation" came from the California emission standards back in the early 60's. Later the Feds adopted it. The jeep has the same system they all have. The plumbing is essentially the same on all, the only difference is that they all have different designs for controlling the flow into the engine's intake.

-jim

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After reading the post from Mike I checked to see if that rear tube assembly was pluged and it wasn't. Not sure what this means but there was a lot of sludge build up. Thinking about switching from Castrol to Pennzoil because of the other posts.

Thanks Again, Dennis

Depends...If he has a sludged up engine, then lifter noise is quite likely. Maybe he didnt need to change them to silence them, but that is another story.

I think you are "chasing rabbits".. Castrol is a good oil. I went away from Pennzoil some years ago (and Quaker State, when Pennzoil bought them) because this brand tended to varnish my engines.

I really dont think that the brand or quality of oil is your problem.. Could be wrong, have been before, but dont think so.

That just basically means there really is no help for your problem. I would run an engine flush and change the filter twice for each of the next two oil changes and do them 'short' to clean it out.

Then just do short changes or take it for a highway burn or better even a 4x4 'low' range off road cruise once a week to heat it up good and burn off the water. The water from condensation causes the sludge. That works. Our Cherokee really liked the cruise on the 4x4 trails, it worked out all the creaks.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build Photos:

I don't think so either. I agree with Mikes post, it's from the short in town driving trips plus the style of engine. I have always used Castrol in my cars and never saw anything like this. I have always worked out of town and the driving range has been around 60 miles round trip. I had a 1983 Buick Century with the V-6 3.0 When I had to replace a head gasket the inside of the engine was really clean.

Thanks again for all of your replies, Dennis

Design constraints such that a part or system designs itself was not what I was responding to. I was responding to a matter of law.

Thanks Mike, I will take your advice. We love the Jeep and want to keep it for a long time, and I don't want to remove the head again any time soon. By the way the most difficult part was disconnecting the cats from the exhaust manifolds. The bolts are held on with U-Nuts. There are four of them. I couldn't get a good bite on them because the pre - cats are in the way. The more I was able to loosen them the tighter they got. It was like they automatically cross threaded. I ended up cutting them off with a torch. Do you know of an eaiser way?

Thanks, Dennis

Maybe you should do what my wife and I did for a while. Trade off vehicles every other week or so. That way the longer trip will help burn off the crud that is causing the oil to become sludge. Plus it gives you a chance to discover any problems before they get to bad.

If there was a lot of sludge build up in the valve covers you it would be very likely it was also building up inside that tubing since that is exposed to all the vapors produced inside the engine. It may not be plugged but it is probably restricted.

-jim

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I'd also worry that if you have a sludged up engine, that switching brands might make it worse. For the OP's benefit, what are his options for desludging short of a total overhaul?

Ray

When I am de-sludging, I use an engine flush or more often a pint of transmission fluid in the oil. I then change the filter at the 'half way' point to the next short interval (less than 1000 miles) oil change. After a couple changes, things usually clean out.

In one case, I used 4 quarts of mineral spirits in the engine, ran it for a couple minutes, let it soak for a few hours, then ran it again and let it soak with one more run then a drain. This was followed by two oil changes at 100 mile intervals. It worked, that engine came back to life. It 'was' a last ditch effort on a high mileage beast though, not like the OP's relatively 'new' engine.

The OP's other issue is the driving will be just adding more sludge as he is trying to clean out the old stuff....

Swapping vehicles once a week like someone mentioned so it gets a highway run to heat up sure won't hurt.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build Photos:

He already had the cylinder head and valve cover off so they should have been cleaned before they were reinstalled. Next step would be to run some engine flush through the engine and then remove the oil pan to clean out any remaining sludge and check to make sure the oil pickup screen is not blocked. Next change the oil and filter and use a good quality oil. Monitor the color of the oil and when it starts to get dirty ( darker color) change the oil and filter again, this may only take 500-1000 miles. Reapeat the short oil changes until the oil will stay clean for 2000 miles. Make sure the CCV system is working properly and all lines are open. If the vehicle will still be used mainly for short trip driving it should be taken out and driven at highway speed once a week to boil off any moisture from condensation. If the vehicle is only driven for short trips like it was before, the sludge problem will happen again. The main cause of the sludge is the moisture in the oil. More frequent oil changes may help but the vehicle needs to be driven long enough to get the oil hot so that condensation has a chance to be boiled off and removed by the CCV system.

I ran afoul (pun intended) of Quaker State Oil a couple of years ago and got a bit of varnish in the engine. It was obvious on the dipstick, valve covers, in the lifter area. I resorted to the old Mystery Marvel Oil, about 8 ounces,and ran the car a couple of hundred miles before oil change. It seemed to clean up quite well, and I changed brands of oil. No more problems.

My situation was varnish, however, not sludge.

I handle sludge in a slightly different way, similar to what you do.

Aha! Did you try oil additives to quiet the lifters? If so, THAT is almost certainly the source of your sludge.

Noisy lifters on engine start are usually due to oil filters with leaky anti-drainback valves. Try a different brand of oil filter to fix that problem.

No, they're not "the same thing." They perform the same function, but they're not the same.

PCV uses a valve that changes its metering cross-section under changing engine load. The fact that it has a moving pintle inside it makes it somewhat self-cleaning, but as we all know PCV valves do eventually clog. CCV uses a fixed orifice which is a good bit more likely to become plugged and STAY plugged than a PCV valve with its moving pintle. Its a good enough system, but requires more careful maintenance than PCV.

Dennis wrote: I had a 1983 Buick Century with the V-6 3.0 When

Well, at least replacing a head gasket on a 4.0 is something you'll likely NEVER have to do. One of the last car engines made with an iron head and iron block... the way God intended :-)

(Yes, I own a 4.0.... for a grand total of 2 weeks now. Been wanting one for years, and I love it. Gets a whole lot better gas mileage than my

440 ;-)