Experience with Ford Diesel Pickup?

I'm looking for a pickup to tow a fifth-wheel trailer. I'm looking at a

2008 F-350 with the 6.4L turbo. Anyone have any experience with this model? Any known issues? How do the Ford diesels compare to the Chevy & Dodge in reliability?
Reply to
M.M.
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All current diesels, regardless of brand have some manageable issues due to the new emissions requirements. If you want to avoid the new emissions issues you'll have to buy a 2006 or earlier model.

As for Ford, the early 6.4L engines had some issues and the worst were resolved by the 2008 model year. The 2008s still had some lingering small issues and the 2009s seem to have few if any (I have a 2009).

The key things to keep in mind for a 6.4L (most apply to other brands as well):

- Read the maintenance information in the diesel supplement thoroughly, in particular the "special operating conditions" section where you will find that the maintenance intervals listed in the "normal" section are not applicable to nearly any typical use of these vehicles.

- These engines have fuel dilution issues that relate to the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) regeneration process which causes some raw diesel fuel to work it's way into the engine oil. With 15 quarts of engine oil and the 5,000 mile oil changes specified in the "special operating conditions" section of the diesel supplement, this fuel dilution is held to 2-3% which does not present a problem.

- It is strongly recommended to send oil samples from each oil change off for analysis (Blackstone Labs or similar) to confirm the fuel dilution percentage as there are other potential failures such as fuel injectors or the high pressure fuel lines feeding them that can drastically increase this fuel dilution and lead to engine failure. These failures would be covered under warranty (Ford ESP extended warranty recommended), however you sometimes need to convince a clueless "service advisor" that the issue is not from DPF regen, is not normal and needs to be investigated per the diagnostic procedures in the Ford service literature.

- Another commonly overlooked (even by the dealers) service requirement is regular coolant testing and coolant additive addition. In the diesel supplement, again under "special operating conditions" you will find that the 100,000 mile max coolant change interval is not applicable, and instead at 20k and 40k you must test the nitrite level in the coolant with test strips (available from the dealer in 4pks), and if the nitrite level is 800ppm or below, add 32oz (two bottles) of VC-8 coolant additive (also available at the dealer). Failure to perform this service can result in serious engine damage and potentially denial of a warranty claim due to failure to perform required maintenance.

- The fuel filters should be changed at 10,000 mile intervals, and the water separator must be drained monthly though most of the time you will fine little or no water. The high pressure fuel pump and fuel injectors are not at all tolerant of water so you don't want to risk any getting to them (warranty claim denial, improper fuel or maintenance).

- Always use the Ford PM22-A (summer) or PM23-A (winter) fuel additives or equivalent (such as Stanadyne Performance Formula) with every fueling. These additives do make a noticeable difference, both in overall performance, and more importantly in reducing DPF regeneration frequency, as well as adding lubricity to the ULSD fuel which helps protect the high pressure fuel pump and injectors.

These recommendations or their equivalent will also apply to other brands of post-2006 vehicles, so it isn't a Ford issue, it's an emissions issue. Pay attention to required maintenance on any of the brands and you'll be ok.

Reply to
Pete C.

[snip lots of good info]

Thanks, Pete, that's the stuff I wanted to know. Sounds like buying a used one is a pretty big gamble unless you know for sure how well it was maintained. Sounds like diesels are at about the same stage as cars in the early 70's when they started with the emission control...lots of problems until they sorted them out.

Reply to
M.M.

Does all of that go for diesel engine cars too? cuhulin

Reply to
cuhulin

It might apply if you had a car with that particular engine, but the info does not apply across the board.

Reply to
hls

Yes, it's mostly for heavier trucks. The diesel engines in cars are a bit different.

Reply to
Pete C.

Not really, the '09-'10s are pretty safe, they work the bugs out faster these days. The '11s are the next crap shoot, with yet another level of emissions stuff to worry about.

Reply to
Pete C.

Isn't the Ford Diesel for 2011 an all new Ford designed/built engine (instead of an Internation engine)?

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

Ford all new 2011 Diesel engine.

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New transmission too. cuhulin

Reply to
cuhulin

Never buy version 1.0 of anything...

Reply to
Pete C.

Look for one with the V-10 gas engine. We've got a couple and work and they are great and a friends father, who tows a fifth wheel trailer, who originally was going to get a diesel got the V-10 instead and was really glad he did. We also have diesels in our work fleet of

4x4s and they really don't get particularly good gas mileage overall and they don't do much towing. I think diesels for "home use" are vastly over rated considering how expensive the repairs and maintenance sometimes are.
Reply to
Ashton Crusher

If you find a diesel that gets good gas mileage, you've got a problem since they don't run on gas.

Despite what some distorted ratings may appear to show, diesels do outperform gas engines for towing and hauling. If you aren't doing any towing or hauling, they mostly cost more in maintenance, but they also last longer as long as you aren't in the rust belt where the vehicle rusts out long before the engine wears out.

Reply to
Pete C.

I wouldn't say THAT. The diesel emissions-related problems are relatively minor compared to the nightmare of first-gen emission controls on gasoline cars.

Ford had a ton of issues when Navistar (the supplier of Ford's diesel engine for many years) switched from the proven 7.3L engine to the 6.0L, and some persisted into the 6.4L version currently sold. Dodge had significantly fewer issues with the Cummins ISB engine, and GM's Duramax also seemed to have fewer problems than Ford did too. Two big changes at once (emissions, plus a brand new engine/turbocharger architecture) really hammered the 6.0 and 6.4 Fords. I'd say the 6.4 right now is "decent" but probably not back to 7.3 reliability. And Ford is planning to do away with Navistar altogether and use their home-brewed "Scorpion" diesel v8 soon.... which may be another whole round of teething pains. The Scorpion looks good on paper (although I have my doubts about an aluminum-block Diesel) and is purportedly going to hit the market with much more extensive testing than the 6.0 did. That's good.

Reply to
Steve

As I said, don't ever buy version 1.0 of anything. The 6.0 had huge problems initially, but by the last batches of 6.0s they had them doing ok. The early 6.4s had problems, but in the later versions they are fine. The new 6.7/Scorpion will likely sting early adopters as well, and after a year or two will probably be doing ok.

Reply to
Pete C.

Cast iron engines last longer than aluminum engines. cuhulin

Reply to
cuhulin

Got any data to back that up?

Cast iron rusts, aluminum corrodes, both should hold up just fine if properly designed and maintained.

Reply to
Pete C.

Cast Iron is naturally more durable than Aluminum.

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In about four more years from now, my 1914 Ford Model T car with the cast iron engine and the cast iron cylinder head and other cast iron parts will be 100 years old.Aluminum will not last anywhere near that long.

Look at those aluminum engines on lawn mowers and other small engines/equipment.They literally shake/vibrate themselfs to pieces. cuhulin

Reply to
cuhulin

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Good old Cast Iron.You just can't beat it! cuhulin

Reply to
cuhulin

Look at aluminum aircraft and engines.

Reply to
Pete C.

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There are some excellent and some piss-poor iron and aluminum engine designs.

Reply to
AMuzi

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