You're probably right about that. I just drive around my little burg. My trip computer will typically have my average speed at 14 MPH. I get something like 13 miles per gallon in this town. OTOH, I don't drive much so it MPG don't matter much.
S
indeed.
actually, it's terrible. unless the vehicle was last fitted with sub-standard pads, or the op's a taxi driver [and even taxi drivers get better than that usually], it's much more likely the shop is gouging. and when you're looking at the $450 price quote, you can be pretty much assured that's the case.
"service writers" exist even at independents.
the bottom line is that the o.p. wants an independent second opinion from an honest shop. or better yet, a shop that will show him how worn the pads really are.
honesty is the key. some independents rip off old folk just like dealers. many is the wrinkly paying for work that either isn't necessary or in some cases, not even done.
I can't imagine a "full-sized" FWD GM car wearing out the pads and not having warped rotors; it just doesn't happen in my experience. Of course my experience with those cars is based solely on letting the shop select the parts; maybe there are some good aftermarket pads that shed heat better than the garbage that GM puts on there *shrug*
nate
You don't have any experience. What's "full-sized" got to do with it? The LaCrosse is a mid-sized W-Body.
It's possible that the factory pads were really soft. And quiet. Harder pads might last longer, but make more noise.
you don't have any experience. rotors rarely, if ever, actually "warp"
- as you would know if you'd actually measured any. [because the temperatures necessary to make that happen are simply not reached.] reality is, the rotors are usually suffering elastic distortion due to seating problems. and this is exacerbated by sliding caliper brakes having more mass for one pad direction than the other, thus different momentums.
the other, though less frequent, occurrence, is that of disk contamination with glazing patches being created. and keeping dirty fingers off the disk prior to fitting easily eliminates that.
you're useless nate. you're completely clueless and useless. a shameful and deplorable situation for someone who professes to be an "engineer".
Even if that were the case, there is no reason to replace rotors that are not scored badly or warped. (And many of those can be recovered by machining)
And there is no reason to pay $450 bucks for a set of pads, in any cases I know about. I dont know what brake pads for a Ferrari or Lamborghini cost, but we are not talking that level of sophistication with a Buick.
IMO, dealerships are often next to crooks with their pricing and prowess.
Congrats on braking with your otherwise unused foot. That's the proper way to drive an automatic. It is exceptionally unlikely that your left foot braking has anything to do with the brakes being worn out. I brake with my left foot and on some vehicles the brakes will last 50,000+ miles and on others only 20,000. I had one where they were shot after only 5000, apparently due to the shop not properly lubing the slides and/or using very cheap pads. The next set of pads lasted the normal time for that vehicle (big old blazer), about
25,000. $450 for redoing the fronts sounds awfully high to me, esp if it's just the pads they are replacing. Even if they are doing the rotors it still seems a little high but some dealerships are pricey. If your brakes seemed fine to you before the dealer said they were shot the odds are the ONLY thing you need are new pads (and the dealer is probably rushing that need a bit anyway). Even at dealer prices the pads shouldn't be more then $60. To replace them is at most 1.5 hours x $90/hr = $135.... + $60 = $195. There's enough fat in there for them to machine the rotors too but Chevy doesn't advise it if braking is otherwise OK.
Have had two Impalas. Have had to have rotors turned in between pad changes, on the factory pads, due to warping.
so's the Impala, hence the quotes.
nate
Sometimes GM products have their own particular idiosyncrasies. They built some of the most failure prone brakes I have ever seen. Their rear disc brakes were prone to fail, and that made the front discs sacrificial.
what runout did you measure nate? oh, you didn't measure? so how hot were the disks running nate? oh, you didn't measure?
ok then, let's try another approach - do you know the difference between elastic and plastic deformation nate? no? what about heat treatment nate? no? can you explain how it is that normalized gray iron, i.e. disk material, is supposed to have residual stress or soften to the point where it's supposed to yield at only a few hundred degrees?
no? well, then you're not much of an engineer and you're simply regurgitating underinformed garbage you read off the net. but we knew that already.
how do you organize the contents of their trunks nate? do you use a dial gauge to measure where stuff goes? you know, the dial gauge you don't own and have never used to verify your warped disk regurgitations?
Right. One model company car. And one shop fixing it. Not you fixing it. You don't even touch the lug nuts. You've repeatedly complained that you can't figure out how to use the accelerator to adjust speed, on the Impala, so I have to assume you overuse the brakes too. When an employer looks at a resume that says the candidate has 18 years experience, he wants the answer to, "Does that mean 18 years experience, or 1 year experience 18 times?" You've given your GM experience here. Besides that, if OEM rotors/pads aren't up to snuff because they're susceptible to heat warping, anybody with sense goes to good aftermarket rotors/pads. You'll find the same bitching about brake rotors for all manufacturers. There's money to be made by dealerships and indies swapping out rotors. Some people bend over and take, others don't.
Well, when I'm told that this is the shop that will repair the car, that's where I take it.
I don't take my personal vehicles there, for good reason. I don't like having cheap parts used on my vehicles, and on those, I'll do simple stuff like brake jobs and fluid changes myself to make sure that it's done right.
But, as I said, these were factory pads, so it's hard to fault the shop. I do fault GM for making the worst car I've ever had; I've driven $600 beater VWs that were better in every respect.
nate
people like nate never learn, even when they've been told the facts repeatedly. i've had hondas come back from the tire shop with "warped" rotors. all i have to do is take them off again and re-torque properly, i.e. factory sequence and stepped torque levels, and the "warping" goes away. persistent ones are cured by scraping of rust at the wheel interface and a little antiseize. this works without fail [unless it's a partially glazed disk] because rotors DO NOT WARP.
as you say, some people bend over and take this "warping" b.s. right up the rear wallet. some people don't. for an "engineer" to not bother to analyze the facts available, not make measurements, and not think through what they're experiencing logically while regurgitating myth and underinformed supposition is just simply disgusting.
I thought they teach that in defensive driving schools :^)
AD wrote in news:e3b82b6c-ecc9-4904-8110- snipped-for-privacy@c4g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:
If so, then they're going to need to change their instructions. The NHTSA is about to mandate throttle/brake overrides. This override will prevent the throttle and brake from being applied at the same time.
Left-foot-brakers and heel-and-toers will hate it.
And this...
Left-foot-brakers and heel-and-toers in the US of A will hate it. Though the idiots in euro parliament on average are far more demented than us lawmakers.
(fortunately?) BRIC economies are doing well enough to warrant a throttle/brake override remove option to be feasible.
I certainly don't see why would anyone outside the states would want a throttle/brake override in combination with a 5/6SP.
One thing going for a MT vs DSG (and slushboxes of course). IT'S THE CLUTCH PEDAL!
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