Interesting site

That's blasphemy... LOL

Professor

I don't even agree with the site, calling it *Bibles* notwithstanding. Read the author's attitude about ABS brake systems. I think he is

Anecdote: One night I was driving back to Chicago from Fort Wayne Indiana, returning from a job. IIRC, the weekend was coming up, and it was most likely a Friday night and I wanted to get home a.s.a.p. but was getting to the point I =had= to take a rest at a rest stop.

So I see one at the last moment and turn onto the ramp to take me into the rest area. What I didn't see or know is that the entire ramp was covered with "black Ice." IOW, I had just put my vehicle on a skating rink, at faster than it should have been going. The ABS kicked in ( to my surprise and for the first time ) and allowed me to take the turn without leaving the tarmac. Had those been *regular* brakes, I would have gone flying off the ramp into trees, and probably wouldn't be here now typing away.

So if I know the author is wrong about that, what else is he wrong about?

The problem with his site is he puts in way too much opinion, and way to little Science.

Lg

I was driving under less than ideal conditions. So does everyone else on the planet unless you live in California.

It was dark, the highway was DRY! get it? No? then f*ck off.

Lg

Please... tell me where I can see "black ice". Another dumbed down phrase from the lexicon of the media. Why not just call it ICE? Is it black when it's on a concrete roadway? That I want to see.

The highway is concrete. The exit ramp into the rest area is asphalt IIRC, as is the rest area itself, IIRC. And it is night time, and there is no illumination except from my headlights, and I could not see the ice, it was invisible, but my ABS sure the heck felt it, and kicked it for the duration of the entire turn, slowing me down and keeping the vehicle on the radius.

We call that *stuff* black ice up here. Stuff that is there but invisible to the human eye. I don't know where that name came from, but it is used to describe ice that is invisible. THAT ice was invisible. I am certain that somebody without ABS took that off ramp and never made it into the rest area. I've seen that so many times, I can't count the number of vehicles with headlights up in ditches.

Lg

The highway is concrete. The exit ramp into the rest area is asphalt IIRC, as is the rest area itself, IIRC. And it is night time, and there is no illumination except from my headlights, and I could not see the ice, it was invisible, but my ABS sure the heck felt it, and kicked it for the duration of the entire turn, slowing me down and keeping the vehicle on the radius.

We call that *stuff* black ice up here. Stuff that is there but invisible to the human eye. I don't know where that name came from, but it is used to describe ice that is invisible. THAT ice was invisible. I am certain that somebody without ABS took that off ramp and never made it into the rest area. I've seen that so many times, I can't count the number of vehicles with headlights up in ditches.

Lg ======================================================================= December 1, 1997

Black Ice Is Dangerous Wintertime Road Hazard

Black Ice is an age-old winter phenomenon that has sent many a driver skidding and sliding down what looked like a dry road.

"What we call black ice is frozen water -- either sleet or rain or from melted snow -- that freezes as a sheet and is not visible as ice," says Glen Hetzel, safety specialist with Virginia Cooperative Extension at Virginia Tech. "The road looks the same as it always does, which is why it's so hard to detect, especially if you've been driving for awhile."

What can a person do to prepare for black ice?

"My advice is to look for signs of ice other than on the roadway," Hetzel says. That means looking for ice on windshield wipers or sideview mirrors, on road signs, trees or fences along the highway. If ice is forming on any of those things, it's possible that it may be on the road as well.

Then again, ice may not have formed on anything but the road. For example, it may have been a warm day during which the snow melted and then froze as ice after the temperature dropped at night. In other cases there will be ice in shaded areas, such as cuts through hills and along banks, before there will be ice on the open roads. "If you suspect there could be black ice on the pavement, you may want to test for it by gently wiggling the car a little bit or by applying the brakes lightly to see if there's any change in the feel of the road," Hetzel explains.

Black ice is also one of the winter hazards that four-wheel drive cannot overcome. "Some of us get complacent because we have four-wheel drive," says Hetzel. "However, you need to be just as careful as the motorist who has a rear-wheel drive vehicle when it comes to ice on the roadway."

Another good tip for winter driving is to listen to the radio for reports on the temperature outside. "When the roads have been wet and the temperature drops below freezing, ice can form quickly," he adds.

"If you are a person who must drive frequently in winter weather, it is a good idea to install an outdoor thermometer in the car," Hetzel suggests. "This will allow you to monitor the outside temperature. These thermometers are available at auto supply stores."

This is also the type of weather when it is especially important to watch for those signs that remind drivers that bridges freeze before roads. "These signs tell you there is a bridge ahead and give you time to slow down so you have better control just in case there is ice on the bridge pavement," Hetzel notes.

Freezing weather causes hazardous driving conditions. Even if precipitation doesn't fall, roads can turn into ice rinks. This condition is called black ice, and some call it a weather phenomenon.

Black ice fools drivers. Its shine tricks them into thinking it's water on the road. What they may not realize is that condensation, such as dew, freezes when temperatures reach 32 degrees or below. This forms an extra-thin layer of ice on the road.

This shiny ice surface is one of the most slippery road conditions. Black ice is likely to form first under bridges and overpasses, in shady spots and at intersections.

I've been exposed to it. It is essentially invisible on the road surface, but suddenly you hit a patch that is owlshit slippery.. Scary as hell.

I learned to watch out for it when I lived in Scotland. I believe that some cars of the time even had sensors to let you know when the conditions were right for it.

The essence of the anti-ABS argument seems to be that superior technology breeds risk-taking and unjustified reliance on the superior technology. Let's go one better than not having ABS. Hell, why not block off the rear brakes. That will really foster conservative and attentive driving!

Don

LOL... right on Don. I am really amazed/amused by the number of people out there that have the notion that the ABS system is not only worthless... but is worse that non-ABS braking. This in my opinion is ridiculous and has no basis in fact. Hey... maybe they think dragging their feet like the Flintstones is even better...

Professor

You can't see black ice. That's what makes it black.

--scott