Is this bad news??

I put both heads on the 3.9 v6 Dodge but did not put the bolts in or bolt them down. No pushrods in either. Everythign was clean and dry and the cylinders oiled before I put the gasket and heads on. Again, nothing was bolted down.

For a few days I had been turnign the crank by hand seeing if the balancer was reading TDC, the rotor was pointing in the appropriate direction.

Yesterday, I don?t remember why, but I took the driver's side head off. (Just lifted it off.) I think I did it because I noticed the outside of the head was wet with oil and I relaized I probably should have torqued the head down first before ptuing the rocker arms on. (I oiled the rocker arms and I think this wetness was from the rocker arms. Of course it seeped through because there were no bolts in the head.

Well, to my dismay, the back two cylinders on the drivers side each had about a teaspoon of antifreeze on top of the piston. One of these is th episton that I found coolant in before takign the heads off. (I stuck winshield washer hose in the spark plug hole and siphoned it out.)

Does this mean I have a craked block? Now worried, I lifted the passanger side head off and there was no coolant in that one.

I convinced myself last night that the coolant was probably just due to the head not being bolted down and I recleaned everythign and bolted and torqued the head. But this morning I am not so sure.

As a test before boltign the head down, I worked the crank several revolutions and did nto see coolant in the cylinders. I also but an air gun in a coolant passage in the block. Coolant came out of a lower passage but none I could see in the cylinder. (Pressure was not that high though).

If the block is cracked I guess I will have to junk it. That would be disappointing.

Also, after I torqued the head down, I pout the pushrods in and torqued the rockers to 22 ft pounds. When I grap the rockers and atempt to shake, some don?t budge, so have play and I can move them, is this normal?

I really appreciate your help!

Reply to
stryped
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I can't make sense of what you are saying. Are you saying that you put the heads on and didn't bolt them down and then filled the engine with antifreeze? I wouldn't expect the heads just from their own weight to be able to keep the antifreeze out of the cylinders.

Doesn't this engine have water pump that is external and belt driven? I wouldn't expect turning the engine over to cause the coolant to do anything to coolant in the block. I wouldn't expect having the heads in place would cause the coolant to do anything different than with the heads off either. I guess it is possible that if the heads were just sitting loose that the suction from a piston could draw antifreeze up from the block. Were the sparkplugs installed in the head?

At any given engine position some of the valves are going to be closed and some are not - is that what you are asking?

-jim

Reply to
jim

I never filled the engine with antifreeze. I has some residual in the block. I set the head gaskets and heads on and not the bolts as I ran out of time. Before puttign the bolts in I did turn the cranks to double check TDC witht he rotor pointing at number one cylinder. The belt was off the engine and water pump so I assume the water pump would have no effect on the coolant. My guess is 1: The cylinder is cracked and I cant see it and with the head and gasket just sitting on there it created enough of a seal where the vaccuum created drew coolant through a crack or 2: Somehow ccolant was sucked out of a lower passage into the cylinder because of the loose fit of the gasket/ head because of no head bolts.

No, the spark plugs were not in and still are not.

I was just asking on the rockers. The Hayes manual says to rotate the balancer to "the v6 or v8 mark". I could only find a v8 mark. (Even thought this is a v6). This it says is a neutral valve train position. I put one side on and some seemed really tight and some were loose. I was not sure how the should be. I adjusted the rockers to 22 foot pounds.

This is a cast iron block. What are my chances the block is cracked??

Reply to
stryped

This is a cast iron block. What are my chances the block is cracked??

***** Could be. If you didnt have plugs installed, you would have no vacuum or pressure in the cylinders, no matter if you did turn the engine over by hand.

Were the heads clean and dry when you put them on, or did they still contain some coolant?

Reply to
HLS

The heads were gone through at a shop. No coolant in them and I cleaned the surface with paint thinner.

So no vacuum means no more pressure than simply turing it by hand with the heads off. I did this repeatedly when taking it apart and had no coolant come into the cylinders.

When I took the head off and found the coolant I blew air into the coolant passages. Some came out in the bottom passages as it should but none I could see in the cylinder.

I am about ready to give up on this thing. Shoudl I even put it back togehter.

I'm just frustrated

Reply to
stryped

While you had the head on did you move the truck at all? Like leaning over the fender with your weight on it? Or climbing into the engine compartment to work on the engine? I'm assuming you didn't drain the block and just pulled the heads off when you first took it apart, correct?

If you did the above I would suspect the problem is that the motion sloshed some coolant around and it ran down the cylinder.

WHY? Your almost to the point that the block would fall out anyway.

Did you follow the book when you put the rockers on? Those are hydraulic lifters and some are still pumped full of oil and others are empty. Since the rockers are torque to spec. there is NO other adjustment.

Reply to
Steve W.

I did not drain the block. But I did use a shop vac to vacuum out the cylinders and as such vacuumed out some coolant. So the coolant level is below even the bottom coolant passages. O never moved the truck. I have leaned over the fender and things trying to muscle the head on, but there was no coolant spilt on the other side???

I guess I said junk it becasue I will have to put this thing back togther probably and start it just to see if the block is cracked. Also, I dont have a good place to take a whole engine out. I have already spent some money in gaskets, heads beign redone, etc.

If the cylinder was cracked is it possible for the scenario to happen like I said- coolant in the cylinder with the heads not bolted down but no coolant when turning the crank with the heads off?

I had always heard it was rare for a cast iron 3.9 liter to crack but that may not be true.

Reply to
stryped

Because you didn't move that side as much probably.

Not really. No pressure difference either way. If it is leaking it should leak regardless if the heads are on or not.

Take a glass of water. Put your hand over the top. Did the water move? NOPE. No pressure difference.

If the block leaked coolant it would leak regardless of the heads being there or not.

Reply to
Steve W.

I guess my thought was when the piston went down it would creat some sort of negative pressure that would draw the coolant into the cylinder.

So your gues is this is ok???

Reply to
stryped

Then there wouldn't be much vacuum or pressure from turning the engine. It seems more likely that the antifreeze got in from the top of the cylinder than from a crack in the block. As someone else said the most likely explanation is that you did something to slosh the coolant around in the block.

There is not a position the engine can be turned to where all the valves will be closed. What you are seeing is normal.

-jim

Reply to
jim

Hide quoted text -

I guess I will continue to put it togther and hope for the best. Would it be wise to put some stop leak in it "just in case"?

Can anyone tell me if it is rare for this block to have a crack and if it did, if it would be clearly visable?

Reply to
stryped

It is possible BUT you would have to have a crack that weeped coolant all the time for that to happen without the head bolted down and the plugs out. Since you didn't see any coolant until you wrestled with the heads and stuff I would bet it's sloshed coolant.

Without any other evidence of a problem, YUP. Bolt it together and fire it up.

Reply to
Steve W.

That would be my guess. Turning engine by hand, head sitting on loosely

-> enough vacuum in the cylinder to draw coolant up/out of the block past the gasket.

IF there were a crack in the cylinder walls, I would expect that you'd have gotten coolant in those cylinders when you had the heads completely removed, too.

Reply to
Steve

I don't agree- you're pushing a slug of air with a 3.31" diameter piston, and expecting it to whoosh out of a 3/8" diameter spark plug hole. Its not going to build *much* pressure, but then it would only take a few millibars of pressure to cause coolant sitting in the block to rise up and in.

Absolutely! You've got nothing at all to lose at this point.

Reply to
Steve

I guess my thought was when the piston went down it would creat some sort of negative pressure that would draw the coolant into the cylinder.

So your gues is this is ok???

******* Depends on how fast you turn the engine over. Air flowing though a spark plug hole will have some resistance. The faster you turn it, the more resistance you will have (and this will translate to lowered pressure "vacuum" in the cylinder) .

If you do it slowly, you will not likely have enough negative pressure to lift anything.

It is a matter of degree.

Reply to
HLS

At the very worst if you start it and the block is cracked invest another $60 and get some Blue Devil block sealer and follow the directions to the letter. I've sold several bottles of this stuff and I haven't had a customer come back yet.

Reply to
m6onz5a

just due

and

if this block was already cracked before you took it apart (when it was runnning) wouldn't there have been some pretty serious signs ...

like billowing white smoke out the exhaust and serious overheating issues possibly billowing white smoke from the radiator and with a nice frothy and foamy coolant ooze when you finally were able to remove the radiatior cap ?

I think the coolant that remained in the engine block would have some pretty distictive coloring changes as well like milky white/green instead of day-glow green

another $ 0.02 idea.

i am sure the experts will correct any errors in my ideas.

robb

Reply to
robb

Going back in this thread, I believe this vehicle cratered and sat unused for a long period of time. The head or heads were, IIRC, cracked, so coolant in the engine oil is a given.. In fact, the OP, I think, posted that when he drained the oil, he got a lot of coolant in the drain pan.

Reply to
HLS

There was coolant int he oil. heads were magnafluxed and shoed cracked. Replaced heads and had a valve job on the heads.

Reply to
stryped

Did you move a heater or radiator hose?

Reply to
Paul Hovnanian P.E.

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