IS THIS TOO MUCH TO ASK?

Don,

And you call yourself a professional .. of course it's too much to ask. Seriously. How many customer horror stories do you have where you ask yourself 'What were they thinking?'

Shouldn't it be obvious that;

if the 'Check Engine' light comes on, maybe you should have the engine checked? Taking the bulb out, or putting a piece of tape over it doesn't fix the problem?

Red lights on the dashboard are A Bad Thing? You should stop driving?

50 miles / 50mph MAX on the sidewall of the donut spare **DOES** apply to you?

some personal experiences..

When "a red light on the dashboard" comes on and you start losing power, that if you continue to drive the vehicle until **it not longer moves under its own power!!** and you have to have it towed in, you shouldn't be surprised when I tell you that a con rod has come through the side of the block and you need a new engine.

when the customer hits a railroad crossing hard enough to bottom out the suspension and bash a hole in the trans pan, and they continue driving even though the car is slowing down, and they finally pull into your shop driveway (at 4:30pm) with the engine at redline and the car moving 0.8mph.. and they get out of their car and exclaim "Whew!! I didn't think I was going to make it!!" AND IT TAKES EVERY OUCH OF RESTRAINT ON YOUR PART TO KEEP FROM SAYING "Maybe you made it, but I don't think your car did' .. but you politely refuse your boss's request to stay late to install a trans pan, and when you talk to the poor smuck who did stay late and ask him what happened when it didn't fix the problem.. etc..

When you advise the customer that the brake pad backing plate is into the rotor, and the problem with the AC is a leak... and they tell you to fix the AC and the brakes will have to wait for another day.. (but.. you saw THAT one coming,, didn't you?)

Now I remember why I got out.. I'm still dealing with stupid people (and.. believe it or not it seems to be worse) but I stay clean.. and the BS level is MUCH lower.. and the pay is higher.. and I don't have to pay for my tools.. and customers don't think me a lying cheating thieving b*stard because their grandfather told them that it shouldn't cost that much and he should know because he used to install fenders on Hudsons at the factory..

Jim

Naturally, I am in total agreement with you on this one, Don. It is always so tempting to make snide remarks or ridicule some of those posters who come up with some crazy stuff, but I learned yeas ago that it just ain't worth it. I try my best to stay away from flame wars. Like a wise old man once told me. " When you get into a pissing contest with a skunk, you still come out stinking even if you win". But yes, It sure would be nice to have pertinent information, and to find out how it turned out. I think the problem is that many who find their way to this group while looking for some help, do not read or post here often (if ever) and haven't taken the time to look through enough old posts to get the idea. As you know, we often see questions posted that were discussed and answered in just the past few weeks, but people never take the time to look or search through the archives before they post. They just find the group and fire away with questions before they even consider that the answer might be right there in front of them. That's why it dosen't even do any good to ask people here to provide all the necessay information. Those who frequent the group often, already know this, and those who are first time users haven't read your request to provide good information.

You are wasting your time. The only thing your post tells me is how long you've been involved here. Which can't be very long! You will figure it out in a while. Or you will just leave.

Ian

Giving all due respect to these posters, if they were familiar enough with what's going on to initially provide all this needed info, they would be able to solve some of the problems themselves. Quite a humorous situation arose Friday (while I had my wife at an endoscopy/colonoscopy center) with a patient not familiar with the center's lingo. A somewhat elderly lady was answering the nurse's questions, & when asked if she had a pacemaker, she said, "No.....but I've got a percolator". Some of the cutest things develop from just not "knowing the ropes" or not being familiar with the ins & outs of the auto mechanic's point of view. One of my favorites came from a single lady who was trying to brag on her worn out car she wanted to trade-in. She said it was really a pretty good car; but the engine just had a little knock on it. s

Most on here get frustrated with this. And I suspect everyone who has ever pulled a wrench agrees with your post.

It isn't likely to change, however.

Your post has some merit, but........ Most of the people who post with a problem do not look at this group regularly. Only when they have a problem do they find this group, post their problem, possibly solve the problem, and then they are gone. So if they don't have all the pertinent information, ignore them. Let them take their car to an expert and pay good money to have it fixed. Certainly don't lose any sleep over it.

You know, this brings up an interesting point. I wonder if there are any shops or technicians that are actually put off by the fact that we do in some cases try to help individuals avoid having to bring their car in for professional service, thereby taking away possible customers. It's kinda like at the school where I teach Auto. I get lots of requests from the general public wanting us to work on their car because we do not charge any labor or parts mark-up. I can tell in most cases they are just looking for a way to save money on the repairs. I always tell them that we do not want to be in competition with the local repair shops that might eventually hire our students. It simply would not be good public relations for us to take work away them. This is one reason I am sometimes motivated to advise people to seek the help of a repair shop, especially when it seems from their post that they probably are in over their heads on a problem anyway. Of course, this is a different situation and I doubt that our help in this forum will put a big dent in the auto repair industry. This is just a hobby for me, and like Don said, the only possible satisfaction is finding out that our advise did actually help in some way. The other reason for reading and participating here is to continue to improve my own knowledge. There again, knowing the outcome is always helpful. Last but not least, I read and post here because it gives me something constructive to do besides watch TV when I am bored.

"Kevin" wrote

As a total amateur and still, as you may be aware, a newbie to many major car repairs, taking automotive courses in retirement now and then at the local community college, I have wondered about this myself. It always seemed to me that the liability risk was too high. I mean both legal liability and repair liability. Suppose a student does not get a brake job right, and there's a terrible accident, with death resulting. Or suppose the repair was simply wrong, and the person has to bring the car back to fix the mistake of students. Do you all really have the time to accommodate both students and non-paying customers? Paying customers can by whiny enough, no?

As for the community service the net often provides to auto consumers: It's the same with consumers of anything, be it health care, education, whatever. I see it as the marketplace at work. Life gets better for all. The best businesses figure out a way to deal with change.

Plus, it's not like people who cannot actually put their hands on a poster's car can give as good a diagnosis as someone who can. Bad advice (though well-intentioned) goes out often and can translate to more money for shops. (I'm sure this point has been made before here or at similar groups.)

Good one.

Plus, for those of us who feel we are lucky and should return some of that luck (hopefully), it's community service helping grandmothers etc. who may not know much about cars to avoid being taken for a ride, ultimatley landing them in the poorhouse, etc.

To the OP: You could try posting your request once a week. Maybe new folks will see it and do as you suggest.

Some people always find something to bitch about, Kevin. Around this little burgh, however, there is more work than there are competent mechanics.

In fact there seems to be more work than there are plumbers, electricians,and HVAC technicians.

If a shop does good competent work and doesnt scam the customer, I believe it will get its fair share of the business and will do well.

If you help a person, he remembers it. If you screw him, he remembers that too.

fwiw, I read a lot of the posts to gain more experience in working on my own cars. I'm just a DIY-er and racer. I know when to hire a professional, but I do 99% of my own work - with assistance from friends and friends of friends. I couldn't afford my cars if I had to pay a mechanic everytime a check engine light came on...

Ray

Personally, no. I don't do it anymore (due to time constraints, no need for the extra money...etc), but I used to do a lot of moonlighting when I was younger and we were raising our kids on one income. What I noticed was that the people that came to me to have me work on their vehicles...would simply not darken the door of a regular shop. They had already been screwed a million times and were no longer interested in dealing with them, unless they absolutely had to. Most of my customers were also not concerned about how much I would charge them (the one's that were, I punted), but were far more interested in the fact that I was honest, understood their financial situation and budget restraints, laid out a plan of action for repairing multiple problems on their vehicle so that it wouldn't break the bank in one month...etc. Plus, I find that people love it when they can talk to you face to face about their vehicle.

Hmmm...it's common practice here in Calgary for people to have work done at high schools, and the large technical institute we have here. How else can the students get a chance to work on real life situations? Any knowledgeble shop owner or tech in the trade knows exactly what I described above.....it's unlikely that you would see these people in our shops anyway. In fact, we/they probably don't want those type of people in our shops. Most of the time, the one's looking for cheap work are the biggest pain in the ass, and you never make any money doing their work.

I know that techs, owners...etc over on IATN are death on mechanics working on the side. They are crazy if they think they can stop it, and my feeling is that perhaps the technician needs to be paid what they are worth. Now that I'm getting close to that, there is no need for me to work on the side. I make excellent money, but it could always be better! Plus, in this day and age, if you have made the decision as a family to have your wife stay at home and raise the children, it's sometimes impossible to keep your head up with one income.

Ian

Probably leave.

Don

What I want in a customer is someone who will trust what I tell them. I'm more than happy to spend _considerable_ time with them to establish this trust. And I've told customers when they needed to stop spending money on their car and get something new... or when the repair they think they need; they really don't need. ie; you don't need to fix that oil leak.. you can buy a lot of oil for what it's going to cost to fix the leak.

So I guess my input would be that I don't mind..

Jim

False. That's the whole problem with the environmental movement -- they want a few things done away with absolutely, regardless of cost, and they miss opportunities to help the environment more, in other ways, at lower cost.

That oil was in the ground in the first place.

I don't advocate dumping oil indiscriminately, but a few drops from a car really *will* be dealt with by other mechanisms before it gets into the groundwater. That's a basic fact about ecology that is lost on environmental extremists -- the ecosystem is very good at dealing with small loads of just about anything. Pollution is a matter of excess, and it is not true that a pollutant is always harmful no matter how small the quantity.

Discard a $2000 car to save $20 worth of oil? What is the environmental impact of having to dispose of the car and manufacture a new one?