Liquid kool: lower temps on overheating car?

| Hope someone's had experience with using "liquid kool" or some similar |named product. For an overheating car, that actually needs more air flow |thru radiator, will one of these products help? When they say "guaranteed |to reduce operating temperature up to 20 degrees", grammar and logic |indicate the true meaning to be: "guaranteed to not reduce operating over 20 |degrees". But, I'm grasping for straws--plus it's not but about $12.00 for |2 quarts, which should be enough for my system. | Anyone had good results with any such product? TIA, sdlomi | |

Rex in Fort Worth

Nothing will work to compensate for a mechanical failure of any type with the cooling system.

You can chase symptoms until the cows come home, but fixing the problem is usually soo much easier....

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

sdlomi wrote:

Watter wetter from Redline Automotive. you can buy it from independant auto stores and Pepboys

Just to expand on that, I have a Jeep CJ7 with a tweaked 258 engine with a stock 2 core rad.

I added a winch and big lights in front of the rad and now have serious overheating problems above 65 mph in the hot summers. Have no issues in the winter months.

I used to bitch about running too cold in the winters before the winch and lights.

I have 'serious' air flow issues. I am going to go to a 4 core rad next spring....

The 'snake oil' products don't interest me in the slightest!

Mike

Mike Roma>

Royal Purple makes Purple Ice too, but none of these type of products will help you by 20 degrees if you have bad cooling - what they do is allow better heat transfer to the radiator, but I'd clean yours first (in and out), then chuck it for a new one, then add the chemicals - trying to do it the easy way will only delay doing the right thing (and you'll be out 12 extra bucks). I've run the stuff - dropped my temps by about 6 degrees (207 - 200) on 85 degree days at 65 (hee hee) miles per hour, non- scientific test, but I did not install more last flush.

Andrew

sdlomi wrote:

Thanks, Mike, Rex, and Eric. BTW, Mike, this is a serious engine transplant--Z-28 LT-1 TPI engine in an '86 S-10 Blazer, designed for fans to come on/off at ~230deg/220 deg!!!!!. Engine has a reverse-flow system to start with--cools heads 1st and then the lower block. And room is non-existent; hence this grasping for straws. Doing research, I found an interesting article from a radiator-builder who claimed that "too many rows" might not help at all. Their theory was that by time the flow-thru air reached the final row(s), it had already picked up enough heat from te foremost rows that it was no cooler than the surface temp. of the final row(s). I've also found that others doing this identical swap all seem to agree on using a certain aluminum, 1-core rad. from a 'vette using plastic side-tanks. The 1 core is like 1 1/2 inches thick--its tubing is oval-shaped and 1 1/4 inch wide so as to maximize the surface area of the tubes. This setup would prolly be effective IF I had room between the rad. and the engine front to install the 2 electric fans as 'pullers'; however, lack of room necessitates mounting them in front of ac cond. as 'pushers'. Also, found thru this research that using the same fans, pushing is about

80% as effective as pulling. Doubting some of what I read, it was reinforced by more than 1 employee at Griffin Radiator--a nationally-known rad. builder, esp. aluminum ones, whose plant is about 20 miles from where I live here in SC. They also told me that they build a rad. esp. for this swap, and it had the same dimensions as the 'vette 1-core rad. I mentioned above. Just trying to pass along to you what I've learned that may help you with your jeep and maybe save you some $. As long as there's room to put a mechanical fan and a close-fitting shroud, you may have all the rad. you need. You could surely try a solid-mount, 6- or 7-blade fan and shroud and maybe solve your problem. DON'T use a clutch-release type & it'll be much more effective (and noisier). I don't disagree w/you, however, if you decide to change rads. to one w/more cores--we both know that just a 3-row would give you 50% more surface area thru which to dissipate the heat. But, if this info. saves you a buck or two............ Thanks again & have a good weekend. sdlomi. BTW: I am quite fond of that 258 engine; it's a real dependable workhorse!

Is your truck running hot at idle or at hiway speeds? If at idle, you need more airflow. If at freeway speeds you need more water flow.

The above advice is distilled from two years of getting a Sunbeam Tiger to run cool. And what a friend learned while solving a hot running Shelby GT350 vintage race car.

Assuming your problems are at idle. Make sure that there are no extra holes in the radiator support that will allow air to bypass the radiator. If it goes thru the grill make it go thru the radiator. Use a small plastic tell tale to see if you are recirculating hot air forward and thru the radiator a second time. If so, find some way to block that flow.

My experiences with Tiger agree with your advice that more rows in the core may not help with overheating. Sometimes the airflow restriction caused by the thicker core hurts the cooling more than the extra row helps.

If your car is running hot at hiway speeds buy hi flow water pump like an Edelbrock. They move more water and that will transfer more heat.

Erich with a Tiger that stays under 200 degrees even on a 100 degree day.

Get a 160 degree thermostat and reprogram the PCM to turn the fans on earlier. Best solution. Long as the radiator is big enough you shouldn't have any overheating problems.

Harry

I guess if I was going to turn to one of these types of products, I'd try the Red Line WaterWetter already mentioned (Red Line Oil has a great reputation and I've had great luck with many of their other products, but not WaterWetter) or something similar from Schaeffer Oil, their Clean & Cool:

Again, I can't vouch for it specifically, but their line of motor oils and other specialty lubrication products (many for farming and heavy industry) are top notch.

With either product, keep your expectations on the low side. Don't expect miracles but they might make the difference in a marginal application

--- Bror Jace

radiator-builder

Thanks. I'm obviously in the category needing more air flow--at low speeds, stop-and-go traffic, in-town driving. I shall continue working on forcing better air flow. Sounds like you have your "pet" performing well. Congrats! sdlomi

Thanks for the tips. I have a solid fan already, but no shroud! My CJ7 didn't come with a shroud... I totally forgot about that little goodie until just now... (slapping head sounds)

That should likely be my first thing to do and see what happens. I can run at 65 mph or off road all day with no issues, but get up into the 70 or 80 mph's on a hot day and the temp gauge goes up dangerously.

My rad is a free standing one on a bracket I built out of an old bed frame and my little wire feed welder. I have a one piece 'glass front clip that lifts right up out of the way so even have lots of room for a pusher fan. Well not lots, but the rad is wide open and can be shifted front to back easily, so it would be easy to do.

A shroud might just be all I need though... Thanks. (still shaking head)

And you are right, a 3 core is likely more than I need if indeed I do need even one.

Have you looked into a product called 'water wetter'? A lot of the Jeep guys that run in the desert swear by it, a couple have that reverse flow LT1 engine too. One just went with the Aluminum rad to cool her or is thinking about it.

One gent was having serious heat issues with the LT1, then we figured out he didn't have the head air burp lines from the back of the heads hooked up. They need to be always working it seems, not just for one air bleed when filling the system or the heads air lock.

Mike

Harry, I'm in the process of doing what you suggest, tho' it be a slightly different approach. Am adding a temperature-adjustable switch to control both fans using 2 additional relays--leaving the pcm-control where it is. If this solves my problem, I'll still have the pcm's higher-temp controls as a backup. Thanks. Sure hope your idea works! sdlomi

radiator-builder

Thx for the tip about the air burp lines--I'll look into that first thing Monday. Wouldn't that be a blessing if that is all it needs! sdlomi

They need an expansion tank with some coolant in it on them. The tank has a pressure cap. Then they can burp out the air and coolant only goes back in if needed.

Mike.

Derale makes some pretty impressive engine driven flex fans. This fan moves a ton of air at idle.

17015 is the number for a 15 inch diameter. They make them larger and smaller. The nice thing about it is the blades go all back toward the engine.

If you have 1/2 inch between the water pump flange and the radiator you can get one of these to fit. I am running 3/8 inch clearance between fan and radiator and it hasn't hit yet.

Then get a full shroud around that fan and be happy.

Good luck taming your beast. Mine put up a battle but now it purrs like a kitten.

Erich

Flex-a-lite makes thermostatically controlled electric fans that move up to

2850 CFM for about $200 or so. I mounted a Black Magic on my S-10 for towing and the temp has never gone above 210 even while towing in these hot Texas summers. Never above 195 when not towing. The added benefit is the horsies you gain from not having to spin a fan by belt. Good luck. People sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf......George Orwell.

Thx, Harry, for the advice. Ordered the 160-degree t'stat today. Noticed the rad. seemed cool enough--hey, an idea: maybe water is by-passing the rad altogether, as that LT1 has all kinds of by-pass features, including

2-plane water neck where t'stat sits, by-passes via small hose thru heater inlet hose, and at least one other I read about. Installed temp-adjustable switch, with temp probe; it splices into fan-wires to turn on fans earlier--similar to reprograming pcm--unchanged, it just never sees temps high enough to control fans, HOPEFULLY. Anyway, I drilled 10 @ 1/4-inch in the 180-deg t'stat., re-installed it, and disconnected my adj'l switch, as it failed to help by itself. Then simulated city-driving, stop-and-go, "wait" for light to change, accelerated to 35, stopped at "next light", etc. Drove highway-speeds et al. Temp gauge never went past 190 degrees; that was with ac off (and thus fans off). Turned ac on, which energizes fans, and temps actually dropped a degree or two. It appears the problem is solved. Didn't check heater output, but should that be problematic this winter, it'll be time to modify a t'stat for cold-weather operation. I can live w/changing a stat twice/year. Prolly the easiest one to change I've ever done. Thx again for your interest and time to reply. sdlomi

Thanks to all who offered advice. Here's what seems to have worked:

"" Thx, Harry, for the advice. Ordered the 160-degree t'stat today. Noticed the rad. seemed cool enough--hey, an idea: maybe water is by-passing the rad altogether, as that LT1 has all kinds of by-pass features, including

2-plane water neck where t'stat sits, by-passes via small hose thru heater inlet hose, and at least one other I read about. Installed temp-adjustable switch, with temp probe; it splices into fan-wires to turn on fans earlier--similar to reprograming pcm--unchanged, it just never sees temps high enough to control fans, HOPEFULLY. Anyway, I drilled 10 @ 1/4-inch in the 180-deg t'stat., re-installed it, and disconnected my adj'l switch, as it failed to help by itself. Then simulated city-driving, stop-and-go, "wait" for light to change, accelerated to 35, stopped at "next light", etc. Drove highway-speeds et al. Temp gauge never went past 190 degrees; that was with ac off (and thus fans off). Turned ac on, which energizes fans, and temps actually dropped a degree or two. It appears the problem is solved. Didn't check heater output, but should that be problematic this winter, it'll be time to modify a t'stat for cold-weather operation. I can live w/changing a stat twice/year. Prolly the easiest one to change I've ever done. Thx again for your interest and time to reply. sdlomi""