'list' of standard times for repair

You can try this site, but there is a fee involved for accessing that information.

I don't know of anywhere online that provides free, flat rate manual times, although simply requesting that info from an independent shop or Hyundai dealer (where the allowable times will be less) might (and likely would) prove successfull.

Evan Platt wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

There is. It's called the "flat rate".

Is this a V6?

If this is a V6, that might be reasonable. The rear bank is often a major headache, sometimes involving a lot of disassembly.

Sounds like about 2 hours, or about an hour a side. Also within reason.

More importantly, what was the shop rate you were charged?

Chilton's has one. Your local mechanic's shop or dealer will have one.

For the most part, it bears very little connection with the actual time to do a repair, especially if diagnosis is required, but dealers and insurance companies use it for pricing anyway.

I can believe those, given the amount of crap that has to be removed in order to get to some of that stuff. I don't know the Sonata but some of the Elantra models require taking the radiator out to get to the plugs. It's horrible. I won't work on those things.

--scott

There are "flat rates" for every job and every vehicle. Call around and ask what yours would be.

The implication apparently being that the listed times are not reflective of the actual time required, which isn't necessarily true. Time motion studies are performed to establish those times, although a knowledgeable, well equipped experienced mechanic, especially those having executed the procedure before (and the reason why dealer time is reduced), can and frequently does beat book time, sometimes by developing shortcuts. However, the amateur or occasional backyard mechanic is very unlikely and has little chance of coming close to meeting those times.

Competent diagnosis is taken into account for establishing times.

Not always. As an example, R&R for parts needing to be replaced (due to collision, fire, weathering ...) don't necessarily experience similar or uniform damage, in which case actual time, in lieu of flat rate, can and is sometimes used instead.

Which speaks volumes about a pro's abilities and ethics if he would otherwise engage in those types of repairs. There's no telling what else (s)he might choose to skip when encountering something difficult or unexpected.

No, there is not.

You too make for a good parrott.

yes there is. look in any local paper at the shop ads.

you're having emotional problems.

You are incorrect unless you mean a non standard "customer pay" operation, such as electrical system diagnosis and repair. The book times are originally set by the manufacturer. I used to be paid by book rate. We all tried to beat the book. Work 8 hours and get paid 12. Sorry, I don't get into name calling.

Yep.

Really? 4 hours? Wow.

Spark Plugs: $86 Install Spark Plugs $375 Front Struts: $173.50 (each) Install front struts: $224.00 (total) Struts installed: $570.

What tipped me off is the stereo shop next door (who I've been going to for years) overheard the staff bragging about how they saw me coming.. Then I researched - I had had my rear struts replaced not 5 months ago, and found my quote and invoice: $102.00 per strut. $120 labor (per 2 struts). Previous invoice for strut replacement was $341.82. I can understand struts going up a tad in price. But labor - doubling?

I wrote corporate, we'll see what happens.

E pluribus unum. But there are multiple procedures for which there are no flat rate times established, customized work being another, see my earlier post on this point.

As did I, so I'd think that you'd be aware that allowed times varied dependent upon who was performing the work, at least during the decades in which I toiled.

Another point already broached yet seemingly ignored.

Nor do you so much as attempt to address the salient, inescapable point. In legalese, your response would be referenced as "asked and answered". But if the mukluks fit ...

no, it's caveat emptor.

your "point" was that there were no flat rates. now you're contradicting yourself by admitting that all the procedures that are not electrical or "customized" /are/ flat rate.

so you never did explain - how are we to believe that you're an "engineering graduate" with "decades" of experience, and yet you're also a tech with decades of experience. assuming you're not methuselah, you're clearly not both, so which one are you? i don't believe you got an engineering degree just so you could work as a tech.

um, maybe it's because you're not making any sense? [see above.]

clearly you're not following the thread - there are multiple authors to whom you're responding as one and the same. either you need to learn to use a proper threaded news reader and pay attention to individual authors, or stop wasting everybody's time.

Check it out:

for something like a solid rear with leaf springs, but not otherwise.

and the rear steers on many cars - your integra for example. that's what the "compensator arm" at the front of the main trailer does. lots of modern multi-link rear suspensions have similar functions.

I have a site to look up labor rates and it states about 3.2 hours to replace the plugs, and 1.2 hours for each strut.

Sounds like they charge around $100 hr. which is the norm in my area.

let me semi-guess: hyundai dealer service dept? if so welcome to the club: my brother was ripped off by sales (financing terms) and service (waiting for the vehicle exiting the warranty terms before doing a $2k service for engine intermittent service light).

my brother is not a parts department kind of guy but I suspect it would've been full circle then.

in modern times u don't have to be a woman to get ripped off by an automotive industry, you just have to unreasonably uncare about automotive stuff

it's a gender neutral screw opportunity times

good luck with your complaint to the hq

Evan Platt wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Rear struts are often easier and faster to do than front ones, since the rear doesn't steer.

From the invoice prices, it sounds like they charged you about 1-hour for the rears and about 2-hours for the fronts. That doesn't sound bad to me.

What was their SHOP RATE? That's the PER-HOUR charge for labor. There's often a sign in the shop that gives their shop rate, and it sometimes appears on the invoice. Or you can phone and ask. It will be somewhere between $75 and $150 per hour. This shop looks to me as though it's charging about $120/hr.

No, local Goodyear.

Try calling your local Hyundai dealer for a ballpark figure, as a potential customer, not a complainant. You just want an idea of what it will cost.

I think I recall it was '80s 6 cylinder Cavaliers that required disconnecting a motor mount and jacking up the engine to get to the rear bank of plugs. -----

- gpsman

Paul in Houston TX wrote in news:kcg0qm$6mi$1@dont- email.me:

That's the flat NUMBER OF HOURS. The difference comes in the SHOP RATE, which is the garage's per-hour labor rate.

If a job has a flat rate of 1.7 hours, and a shop charges $150 per hour, you'll get invoiced $255. If another shop charges $100 per hour, you'll get charged $170.

The mechanic I used for many, many years once had a customer who insisted on being billed for actual hours worked, rather than the flat rate. Sometimes that customer ended up paying MORE than the flat rate. Flat rate does not take into account unexpected problems a technician may encounter, such as a fastener that is badly rusted in place, or previous repairs that were badly done and in need of correction.

Generally speaking, a tech will try and come in under the flat rate time with as many jobs as possible. This helps pay for the jobs that end up taking longer than expected.