Lugnuts--anti-seize or grease?

I have always used Neverseize. Just a small amount on each stud. One application lasts the life of the car.

Rich

snipped-for-privacy@aol.comjknnot (GarySport) wrote:

No!

Get the right kind of lug nuts for the alloy rims or at the very most put a 'little' anti seize only on the face of the nut where it touches the rim.

I also use anti seize on the back side of the rim where it touches steel so it doesn't get 'welded' to the hub.

You should not use anything on the threads, that blows the torque settings all off and that can stretch lugs leading to shear off failure or stretched threads so the sucker will never come apart.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

GarySport wrote:

We've been up and down this thread before.

A generally recommended practice is that threads on bolts, studs, etc, should be clean but not lubed if you are going to torque them down.

I agree with the first poster, however, that a little Neverseize on those threads can be a real help in removing the nut the next time you have to do it. Sometimes these things get rusted on so tight that it takes some overkill to break them.

I also believe that it is more important to get even tightening on rotor studs than to get an exact torque spec, provided you get them tight enough to hold the wheel firmly.

My car came, new from the factory with greased lugnuts. It has aluminum wheels.

I have used WD40 to clean the threads before. Didn't like doing it though, but it was needed. I made sure it had long dried up before putting the nut on and was 'really' careful with the torque to go on the low side.

I really don't think of WD40 as a lubricant though and didn't use it as one. It 'is' a great cleaner and good for cleaning surface rust to a point.

A 'wet' torque is totally different than a dry torque and fresh WD40 qualifies in that regard as a wet torque situation. It has enough lubricant in it to be dangerous.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Then it has 2 torque setting listed in it's owners manual.

One for the 'wet' torque and one for a 'dry' torque. They can be radically different.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Childfree Scott wrote:

And if you really want to make your future self happy, smear a very thin layer of waterproof grease around the part of the hub that protrudes into the center of the wheel. Rust in this location makes a wheel almost impossible to remove.

JazzMan

In general, don't use antiseize on threads unless is specified or if it is for the sparkplug only. Antiseize reduce friction in the threads and increase clamping force. It is too much of a good thing. You can end up yielding the stud. If you must use some lubricant. Use normal engine oil or plain grease instead of antiseize. Here are some testing results on lubricated and non lubricated threads. You can increase your clamping force by up to 71% with antiseize!! I striped my manifold studs off using antiseize.

Having said that, I think most wheel studs are purposely over designed. People jump on the wrench on the side of the road to tighten the wheel. I am sure the manufacture considered that.

Ben

In an iron/copper couple which is exposed to water, which element is sacrificial and which is protected,Huw?

Depends. Is there an anode rod in that water heater you're working on ?

:-)

Sorry, Jimmy, no popsicle.;>) Copper/iron couplings ALWAYS favor the corrosion of the iron and the protection of the copper.

Disastrous failures have occured when the same dies are used to draw copper tubing and then later steel tubing. The traces of copper on the surface CAUSE corrosion, they don't prevent it.

Now, grease, in all its glory, is a wonderful thing.

People do that to loosen the wheel too. That's why we see hubs and rotors with three or -four lugs and a stump so often.

I've met people who really do think "stomp on the end of the lug wrench 'til it squeaks" is the procedure for torquing the things. Probably works if they aren't very big, or stick to robust vehicles. One of my more practical-minded physics professors showed me the light with regard to foursquare lug wrenches, as we stopped to help someone trying in vain to use the L-shaped thing supplied with the car. You know, the one that was part of the kit back in the days of split rims and frequent do-it-yourself roadside tire and tube patching, and persisted because it was cheap and doubled as a jack handle. The foursquare ones let you apply two rather than one armloads of torque, and apply it in a way that minimizes the shearing force on the lug.

The other cute trick people pull is using the next larger SAE lug wrench on a metric nut, or vice versa. This way you round the corners of the nut, or round the corners of the wrench if it's a cheap one, or maybe the two fight each other to a bloody stalemate -- and especially if combined with the above problem, it's a great way to prove that you're stronger than some of your car parts.

As I'm sure many of us here have learned the hard way like I did, even a skinny mechanic is stronger than a lot of car parts, given poor technique and/or a lot of incorrect leverage.

The advice I give to novice fellow motorists: Buy a foursquare lug wrench one of whose ends fits your lug nuts properly, in the biggest size you can, um, "spare" the room for in the trunk, and think about how to use it in a way that exerts as much force as you can rotationally rather than sideways. Maybe a little can of WD-40 can hide in the trunk too. Most people thus prepared can defeat even a stubborn lug nut, then put it back on tightly enough for a safe trip to the gas station.

Cheers,

--Joe

Wheel bearing grease works better than anti-seize, which anyway gets all over everything.

He's absolutely right. I broke a stud because I used anti seaze. The anti seaze paste reduced friction so much that factory torque yielded the stud. Factory torque specifications assume you're not altering the friction characteristics of the fastener - I learned that the hard way!!

It was a PIA to replace the stud since it was a front hub and FWD.

It must have reduced friction to increase effective torque by a helluva lot!

When you torque a bolt, 85% of the torque goes into fighting friction and only 15% or so does the actual clamping. Given that friction is highly variable, the clamping force is highly variable.

Ben

Absolutely on key, and now we are getting to the nitty gritty.

The clamping force is what we want to achieve to specification, and torqueing alone is not enough to be sure this is done correctly. And, I have seen lots of lug nuts almost welded onto the studs by rust. You can shear them off sometimes by trying to loosen them.

Maybe one could clean them well with a wire brush, and then torque them down...then coat the outer part with a grease of your liking to be sure that little water enters the threaded area or maybe even a little grease enters by capillary action. This couldnt possibly hurt anything after the torqueing was already finished.

If we really wanted to measure clamping force, we would have to use a bolt elongation gauge. They exist, but I have never seen anyone use them on rotor studs. Is there another way?

Common sense and a little feel for torqueing can go a long way.

Years ago, before I knew better, I got tired of how hard it was to remove my lug nuts so I greased them with white grease. It never caused a problem for the next 10 years I owned the car, none of the wheels ever came loose.

-- Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts:

"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . . Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House of Representatives, August 17, 1789