Mazda 2 (2011) front brake replacement

Pad replacement is trivial -- assembling the tools ("I KNOW I've got some C-clamps that size somewhere...") takes longer than the job itself. The first time I did it I was absolutely shocked. The first one took maybe half an hour; the other side half that.

No idea about the rotors. Are you sure they need replacing? If it's not really much the pads will make short work of the rust.When I ground mine down to nubbins (I tolerated the noise for a long time because I was busy at work; I only had the brakes done when the pads were down to the metal backing plate which ground the rotors down into what looked like beginners' lathe projects) the mechanic replaced them from a wrecking yard for $10 each. Yeah, that was back in the late 80s, but still...

Good friends!

Call some of the chain repair places (I've been happy with Pep Boys for a long time, but when they say 'coast to coast' they mean California and one or two shops in New York or equivalent.) and ask what rotor and pad replacement costs if no other parts are needed.

Again, I like Pep Boys lifetime parts.

You might need calipers, which are considerably more expensive. Do the brakes actually work now, or is this a wreck you're trying to rehabilitate?

I'm sure there is, but paper books are handier and grease doesn't hurt them much.

watch this youtube video

There may be others.

It should be very straightforward. Just have some wire handy to hang the calipers on so they aren't hanging on the brake line. If you have anti lock brakes then you want to open the bleeder screw when you are pushing the pistons back into the calipers to avoid pushing old brake fluid up into the ABS valves. If you don't have ABS it's not much of a worry. You can push the pistons back before you pull the caliper off by prying on the pad with a large screwdriver to push the pad, and the piston, back. Or you can get a large C-clamp and use it to push against and old pad (to protect the piston) when you have the caliper off. Pushing the piston back is likely to be the hardest part other then simply the normal confusion when you have never done something before and nothing is familiar to you. Have some PB Blaster or other penetrating oil handy if you think the nuts and bolts may be rusted by don't make a mess of it, you don't want it all over your new brakes. Also pick up a couple spray cans of spray brake cleaner to spray off any grease you might accidentally get on the new parts. Another item I've seen stressed in professional articles, not so much in DIY articles, is that you need to wash the new rotors were soap and water to get all the machining residue and small metal chips. That said, for years I had never heard of doing that and just sprayed the new disks with the brake cleaner spray and cleaned them that way and as far as I ever noticed there was never a problem. But at least clean them with the brake spray cleaner to get all the protective coating off. I use soap and water and then brake cleaner spray now. I also put silicone grease on the back of the pads where they contact the piston and other parts of the caliper. Just don't let it get on the friction part of the pad. Some cars use one time use only caliper mounting bolts that are torque to yield. I have no idea of yours is one of those. My guess is that it isn't but YMMV.

Agreed. The pads are the easy part.

The thing about the rotors is that you're going to have to take them off sooner or later... so this might be a good time to just remove them and put them back on if they measure fine. Put a little anti-seize on the screws so that next time they'll come off easily.

Check and grease the calipers, make sure everything is moving nicely.

People charge crazy rates like that when they don't know what they are going to be getting into. Maybe it'll be a half-hour job. Maybe all the fasteners will be solid blocks of rust and it will take all day and some work with a torch to get everything apart. You don't know until you get under there, and so you're going to pad the estimate way out.

I agree, though, that if the only problem with the rotors is rust that I wouldn't replace them.... but I sure would take them off and measure them on the bench, just for the sake of getting them off, seeing what the state of everything around them is, and getting some anti-seize on the screws.

All of the big guys will be fine. Find a locally-owned auto parts store, go in and tell them you want new rotors that aren't crap. They'll know what is crap and what isn't. You may find once you get under there that you don't have to replace the rotors at all, in which case you will have a set of spares on hand in the garage for the day when you do.

I would also get a package of the high temperature caliper grease from the FLAPS. I like the Loctite brand but there are plenty of others. When the calipers are off, grease them and make sure everything is good.

You may not need to drain the brake lines at all, although if this is a car with deferred maintenance issues, probably changing the brake fluid would be a very good idea.

--scott

Good to hear!

That's what the mechanic said - existing rotors are rusty as all get-out. They have no meat left for machining. Some cars roll out of the factory wi th rotors that simply don't have any extra metal against a future need to t urn them, so if they get worn or gouged, you're getting new rotors. Appare ntly this car is one of those.

I've dealt with this shop a few times before, and they didn't try to pull a fast one, so I don't think they were just padding the job.

Junkyard rotors could be cheaper, sure, but more work. I'd have to measure them for runout, and then possibly have them turned. Going to measure the new ones anyway but I would be surprised if they had enough runout, out of the box, that I couldn't use them. And then I could take them back to the store.

Used rotors could also have cementite inclusions from previous hard use, wh ich there would be no way of telling from just looking at them. I'd like t o get this job done quickly, so I don't mind paying a bit to know I have go od, true rotors at the start.

Indeed.

This is good idea. As another writer suggested, the quote I got probably i ncludes some wiggle room, in case of extra work. I haven't seen it directl y yet, but supposedly there is a ton of rust up under there from the mariti me environment and harsh winters (think road salt).

Good idea. The plan is that I'll go get parts (and lunch) once my friend a nd I successfully get things apart. There are four Pep Boys in this town, so it shouldn't take long.

I will assume for planning purposes that the calipers are fine, because the mechanic did not think they needed replacing. Also, the car drives just f ine, to include stopping. It just doesn't have much brake pad left.

Strictly speaking, we could wait until there's metal grinding on metal. Bu t, that's not very safe. Also, it's not my car. I'm trying to get it fixe d before the owner gets back from out of town, as a nice surprise. She's b een out of work, so she wasn't sure how she was going to get the work done.

Thanks, maybe I'll print out the relevant sections.

Appreciate it!

That's more or less my point of view. We'll see how rusty the rotors really are when/if we get everything apart, and measure thickness.

I'm not too concerned about runout on the existing rotors. I would assume that if they had any significant runout, it would manifest as bad braking (pulsation, shudder, juddering, etc.). Instead, the car brakes as smoothly as you'd like.

I'm not sure how to measure runout on the new rotors. Something I need to research. One would like to assume that new, good-quality rotors would not have a runout issue, but it's best to check, yes?

Good call. As I suggested, the calipers seem to work fine, but it wouldn't hurt to have a look.

Also, I'm looking at this job as prep for eventually doing my own brakes (I drive a much larger Mercury).

This is good point. The mechanic did mention that he was erring on the side of extra work, given the extreme amount of rust he saw. Much better that, vs. getting everything apart and "oh BTW it will be another $500 in labor."

Good plan. Again, this will give me experience towards eventually replacing my own brake pads and/or rotors.

Well I probably will just never take the new rotors out of the box in that case, and take them back for a refund. I had a set of tie rod ends for a Mercury Grand Marquis sitting at my old house for 5 years, that I was going to use "some day." :)

(N.B.: FLAPS = Friendly Local Auto Parts Store. hehe)

I assumed that swapping out the brake fluid would be standard procedure. Don't you want the system depressurized, to grease the calipers and such?

As far as I know, the brake fluid has not been replaced in the 3 years of driving by the current owner. She drives very reasonably, but still, it's probably time to swap it out anyway.

Thanks!

Go to RockAuto.com, get the RAYBESTOS 580450R discs. It's your best value and will take 3 days to get them, you won't regret it.

Also, get the ceramic or semi-metallic pads of your choice (go with whatever is on there now, you don't want different types on front and rear). Click on the "Choose for me to minimize cost" ENABLE button so that the discs and pads will originate from the same warehouse, thereby minimizing shipping costs and saving you money.

The mechanic ordered them from the junkyard and they didn't need turning. The junkyards around here cooperate nicely with the mechanics that buy from them -- why alienate a customer who will not only not buy from you any more, he'll tell his mechanic friends not to buy from you? Over the decades, I've decided I like junkyard guys. They've never sold me crap.

I wonder how often rotors get redesigned. I suspect not all that often, but that's just a guess.

It's amazingly not unsafe, but that doesn't mean anybody should delay deliberately. As I was grinding them down metal-to-metal they stopped just fine but made awful sounds. When they started hogging in I knew it was time to get them fixed and I was shocked at just how much damage I'd done to the rotors. Had they not been valuable to the shop as scrap metal I would have kept the worst one as a wall decoration.

Excellent!

Enjoy!

Thanks, but I don't think those are the right rotors. Amazon.com's part pi cker says they aren't, Rockauto.com's parts list for the 2011 Mazda 2 doesn 't list them, and they seem to have 5 stud holes. All the other rotors lis ted for this car have 4 holes, so I don't think the 580450R rotor is going to fit.

I don't know what type of shoes the rear brakes use, but they're drum brake s, rather than disc (thus shoes). The car had low miles (

says they aren't, Rockauto.com's parts list for the 2011 Mazda 2 doesn't list them, and they seem to have 5 stud holes. All the other rotors listed for this car have

4 holes, so I don't think the 580450R rotor is going to fit.

Sorry, the mistake was mine. The correct one's for a 4 hole is RAYBESTOS 980863R Professional Grade and RockAuto does have a listing for a 2011 Mazda 2 in the Daily Driver category.

rather than disc (thus shoes). The car had low miles ( The brake fluid could be factory original. Brake fluid needs to be replaced periodically even if you don't drive hard, doesn't it?

to ship, unfortunately. I may end up paying a few more bucks getting the parts retail vs. online, but oh well. Since this is my first time doing such a major repair, I'd rather have the convenience of retail: e.g., being able to bring the parts back if I accidentally get the wrong ones, and being able to pick up additional parts right away if required. It's no fun to have to stop work early, because it will take another week to get the right parts shipped.

The only issue with RockAuto is don't buy closeouts. I've had no other problems with them, but I understand that you're in a hurry this time. Sorry about the mistake.

Well a kit to do the fronts with pads, rotors, and hardware is 80 bucks at rock auto. If things are that rusty you will want a caliper guide pin kit as well.

Looking at the specs the rotors are scrap if the are rusted. They start as 23MM with a min. of 21MM removing rust and wear will eat that real quick.

Probably will want a drill handy to remove the rotor screw, I doubt it will come free. I generally just drill to the bottom of the countersink in the rotor, remove the rotor and use a chisel to shear the screw off flush.

I noticed that, and the kits seem like a good deal. Hoping they have the same package deal at a local store, since I'm getting parts on Saturday.

I'm almost positive I'll be going back to the store for parts we didn't know we needed. Could well end up being caliper guide pins.

That's the gist of what the mechanic said. It seems a lot of cars are like that today. I presume it's for weight savings/handling characteristics (reducing unsprung weight, perhaps). Cast iron is heavy.

I believe the rotors on my car (Mercury Grand Marquis) are also "replace if worn" in that sense.

Fortunately, rotors are cheap. Unfortunately, mechanic labor isn't. Which is why I'm learning to do this myself.

Yes, and I'd bet this is why the estimate I got was on the large side. There's no telling how it will go until you start trying to take stuff apart.

Thanks!

Brake job postponed to the coming weekend (1/23). Something came up so we couldn't do the work Saturday, and also I couldn't get the parts here fast enough.

I found that buying local was not the way to go. I bought a front rotors and pads kit at rockauto.com for less than half what it would have cost to get parts at retail. Paid a bit more for faster shipping, and I'm still well ahead on parts cost.

Had another look at the mechanic's estimate. It was actually closer to $630, not $800 (that figure included some other work). Still steep.

By Sunday, I should be posting either "wow, that was easier than I expected!", or some variation on "ended up having it towed to a shop."

I wish you luck on your repair. :-)

Andy

Definitely! I especially hope that the instructions are absolutely clear!

I feel pretty good about it. The parts arrived Wednesday and I've looked through them. Did some additional reading, and decided I should pick up a small tube of brake caliper lube.

If this is as quick and easy as it seems it's going to be, I may do the brakes on my own car next. It hasn't had new pads for 10 years, so it's probably time!

Wow, that was SO much easier than I was expecting.

I did have some expert help. I'll refer to him hereafter as Mechanic Buddy (MB). So there were three of us: self, MB, and his old Army buddy, C. MB has worked on his own vehicles for years, and has all the tools you'd expe ct. In maybe 10 minutes we had the car up and the old pads off on one side . It wasn't C's first rodeo either.

The old rotors were in terrible shape, as the first mechanic had said. The y were quite worn, and super rusty. We knocked a hell of a lot of flakes o f rust out of the general area where the rotors had been. Fortunately, not hing else (such as hubs, calipers, or suspension bits) seemed to be rusty. MB had seen worse. C attacked the works with a wire brush, and had it spi c & span in short order.

BTW, a 2011 Mazda 2 does not use screws to hold the rotors on. They are he ld on strictly by the presence of the wheel & lug nuts. The old rotors wer e a little sticky, but not rusted hard to the hub, probably because the hub itself did not rust. There was some corrosion at the wheel/rotor interfac e, but not much on the wheel itself (they are aluminum wheels). Aluminum d oes corrode, but it all appeared to be superficial, thank goodness.

I clarified with the car's owner that they use sand most of the time up the re, not salt, to make the roads drivable in winter. Still, even some road salting, and a harsh humid climate, will combine to do a number on anything that can rust.

The old brake pads weren't completely gone, but were getting there. Maybe

2mm of material was left. Bonus points: I accidentally bought fancy pads w ith a Teflon coating on the back, so brake caliper lube was unnecessary.

I'm still not sure why the old works got in such bad shape. It was as if t he pads had worn a little unevenly. There was a tangible trough in the rot ors where pads made contact, vs. the completely smooth and level feel of th e new rotors. Weird.

For those keeping score at home: as of Saturday the car had about 69,000 km /43,000 miles on it. So the brakes were most likely factory equipment, as was the battery.

We got a good laugh, noticing that the brake calipers had Ford markings on them. Fasteners were metric, as expected.

The whole job took maybe an hour.

We elected not to swap out brake fluid. We did add some, to get it up to t he right level, after everything else was done. MB said the old fluid look ed fine, so there was no point in replacing it. Also, the car has ABS, so it would have been kind of a hassle. Car stops perfectly well now - no spo ngy pedal feel or other evidence of air in the brake system, etc. So I thi nk that will do.

The before-and-after difference in braking is dramatic. Driving over there , it felt like crap every time I had to stop. It stopped fine, just felt a wful. Kinda grind-y and uneven through the pedal.

On the way home? Braking was nice and solid, just as it should be. Smooth . Even. Not too much pedal travel required.

It turns out the battery was fine (like I said MB is fully equipped, to inc lude a battery tester). We added some distilled water, since the electroly te was a bit low.

This was where I learned about the "aspirin trick." Supposedly, you drop a n aspirin in each battery cell, and it cleans junk off the electrode(s?), r einvigorating an old battery. We skipped it both because we didn't have an y aspirin, and because the battery was working OK in the first place. I'm skeptical of Bubba-ing electrochemistry, but I'm far from the first to hear of this nugget of automotive wisdom.

Can't do that on my car, as the battery I have is sealed.

So in total I saved almost $700, even though I bought lunch for all involve d.

Next project: brakes on my own car. It's not had a brake job in around 9 y ears, so it's probably time.

We discussed the disposability of rotors. MB is of the opinion that you wa nt to swap the rotors every time you do a brake job, just because it's a we ar item. I can't disagree, given that they're relatively cheap - as long a s you're doing your own, not relying on a for-profit service.

We both had a good chuckle over the absurd markup on the parts the original mechanic wanted to use

EXCELLENT. Glad you reported back and that it worked out so well!

Normal. I've seen only a few that were nice and clean. NY normally eats a vehicle in short order. You might make it 3-4 years of normal driving before the rust gets a good start.

50/50 on the screws, some use them, some don't. A trick on aluminum wheels is to clean off any corrosion and spray the backside with a light coat of white grease. The grease will slow the corrosion and allow easier removal of the wheel.

Salt in any climate will do a number on anything that can corrode. I would bet they use a sand/salt mix, very common.

Normal. Rotors see a lot of heat cycling during use. Combine the heat with water and dirt and they get a beating. Bring your car home and park it and as the brakes cool down moisture in the air attacks the nice clean oil free surface of the rotor, rust starts almost instantly. Next day you go to work and that bit of rust that formed gets embedded in the pad. Stop a few times and the rust gets removed but it took a bit of the iron away.

I usually flush fluid that is dark, if you can see through it I leave it alone. But a pressure bleeder makes it easy to flush the system.

Heard of it but never tried it.

Very likely, unless it stays parked in the garage.

About the only ones that are not disposable these days are on SUVs and trucks. The rest of the bunch use thinner/lighter rotors (and everything else) to get better mileage.

I'm not sure I would call it absurd. Consider the amount of money it costs to run a business these days. Auto repair is a VERY expensive field. Especially if you want to keep everything up to date with training and technology. You can easily have $100,000.00 invested just in tools before you even turn a wrench. Now add in the cost of the building, taxes, waste disposal, electric, heat, insurance and a host of other areas to spend money. Get busy enough to need help and you can add in a bunch more money going out.

(Not talking about the Mazda 2, rather my own '98 Mercury, here.)

Garage for 7 of the last 9 years, parked outside the last 2.

Brakes aside, parking outside doesn't seem to have been great for the paint . Said paint has begun to fall off, in the last year or so. There are spo ts where it's down to primer. Maybe that's just what happens when a car is 18 years old? Clearcoat on my last Mercury started flaking off around the 11 year mark (it was parked outdoors its entire life).

Thank goodness I am in a dry climate, or the '98 would have body rust probl ems.

I figured it was to do with fuel economy.

Even rotors that have enough meat on them, may not be worth turning. A co- worker who drives a truck also does his own work. He opted for new rotors, vs. the cost of having the existing ones turned. It was about the same mo ney, and in that case why not get new?

Speculating, I can envision shiploads of worn-out brake rotors going overse as for scrap, possibly to China or India, to be melted down and re-born as new rotors.

Sure, there's overhead, but I found the call for "premium" rotors a bit muc h. Nearly 300% markup vs. the rotors I bought. What does "premium" mean a nyway? Slotted and drilled? I wish I drove a car exciting enough to justi fy those.

Most of the estimate was labor. That's fine - and often the case. As you say, expenses exist.

I don't think the original shop was being dishonest. In fact, what they sa id was entirely correct: stuff was rusted and worn out and needed to be rep laced. I didn't mind paying them to find that out - that's what they're th ere for.