Metric On Cars ?

snipped-for-privacy@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in news:jrdi6j$3g7$ snipped-for-privacy@panix2.panix.com:

and what in the heck would that tool be useful for????? KB

Others include: 5/16"- 8mm, 7/16"-11mm, 3/4"-19mm and more where both larger and 64th increments are concerned.

i can't think of a single fastener specified in 16mm, bike, motor bike or auto. 18mm is not exactly common either. it's all very well doing the "full coverage" thing, but i don't see much point trying to sell stuff nobody ever uses.

on the subject of usage, 13mm is ubiquitous in euro vehicles, but since japanese auto manufacturers appear to be triskaidekaphobic, you'll get

12mm and 14mm used on them instead. 14mm is close to 9/16, but 12mm is close to nothing. if you have 12mm fasteners, you need a 12mm wrench. and if it needs ot be given a specific torque, and is in a restricted space where you can't get a torque wrench and socket on top of it, honda distributor top bolt and bottom center intake manifold nut being just two examples, an adapter is the only option.

buttoff's just a leg humper. like some confused little puppy. only without the benefit of being cute.

I can't think of any current 16mm either. Stronglight[1] bicycle crank bolts (m8x1.0) had 16mm heads from 1935 to

1982 and Zeus the same (chromed bolts!) until their demise in the 1980s. A 5/8" six point works well, better with the end bevel removed. Many brands of 5/8" socket will not clear the 21mm aperture on a Zeus but most fit inside the 22mm hole of a Stronglight. Schwinn (Chicago) specified 16mm axle nuts for Normandy hubs which were delivered to all other manufacturers with 15mm nuts. That plant closed long long ago of course.

To your larger point, it would indeed be nice if there were a more limited standard set of wrench/fastener sizes but I doubt that will ever come to pass. Recent 'innovations' in our industry include a proliferation of Torx, unique proprietary drivers and now 11mm allen head fasteners. Oy!

[1] First successful square taper aluminum cranks.

i can't speak to the latest iterations, but for about three decades there, the japanese car manufacturers were real close.

8mm, 10mm, 12mm, 14mm, 17mm, 19mm, 22mm, 32mm and 36mm covered pretty much most things.

like 7mm bmw brake caliper allen head fasteners it's usually to deter the proles and encourage them to spend money with the dealer.

but torx is a good thing. especially in this age of cheap chinese tools with poor dimensional tolerances, and especially bike tools. i have some pentagonal "locks" on my hubs and seat post, and while they might slow a casual thief with the wrong tools, they'd yield to a drill or vise grip in seconds three.

indeed.

I haven't seen one either but they would sure make it easier to get the E28 apart. I'm getting tempted to just cut a 10mm wrench in half and weld a bar in the middle.

--scott

Ford drain plugs were 16 mm for a couple of years. As someone else pointed out, 16mm is close enough to 5/8" that you don't usually need both (although my cheap Carftmans Socket Set has both). The Ford drain plugs had a slightly taperd profile so that either a 16 mm or a 5/8" would fit tightly. I assumed they designed it this way so that it was "metric" but you could still use a good old 5/8" wrench to drain the oil. I've never needed the 18 mm socket except to hammer on a rusted / worn 3/4" nut in desperation.

Cornwell offers a 12 mm torque adapter for round $17 (CTGM122TA if you can find one of their trucks). They also have 11, 14, 16, 17 and 19 metric adapters. Armstrong offers them in 10, 13, 15 and 18 (and a bunch of inch sizes). I was really surpised by the 18. My guess is that they initiallt offered what they thought were common sizes and when they sold so few of them they decided not to expand the product range for 12 and 14 mm. Matco has a set that includes 10, 12, 13, 14,15, 17 and 19. The 12 mm is BTA12M but it looks like you have to buy the whole set for $150 to get it. T&E Tools offers a set that includes 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17,

19 for around $ 112, but it is not US made (European I beleive). If I need torque adapters, I'd probably order this set. They look good in the pictures and Amazon.com sells them.

So while Snap-On might not want to supply the 12mm and 14mm torque adapter some of their competitors do (Cornwell and Matco for sure).

Would a crowsfoot whench work for this application in many cases, or is it too short to make a difference? I've never actually needed a torque adapter, but it has been years since I worked on anything really complicated. Farm equipment tends to only need basic tools and none of my Fords or Toyotas have needed any sort of complicated repairs.

Ed

you've done a good deal more homework than i had the patience for - and that is part of the point i made earlier. i ended up buying these:

they're decent enough.

i want to support domestic manufacturers, and historically, snap-on have been awesome. but lately, they've completely lost the plot. seriously, they purport to support the auto maintenance industry, but they don't support honda, toyota or motorcycles with cylinder base bolts whose overhang prevents any other kind of torque wrenching. and don't get me started on their withdrawing quick release head ratchets, then only bringing them back in limited apps, and with a crappy redesign.

too short. in fact, the typical crowsfoot could do with being 50% longer anyway since a lot of the time, the head of the driver fouls the thing you're trying to wrench around. their wall diameter is too thick for one of my apps too.

you probably have, but just used a wrench and didn't bother to torque per spec.

honda and toyota need very few special tools. unlike german stuff or even most domestics. it's just that if you want to get something right, like not have a bolt vibrate loose, have a gasket leak or start to strip an aluminum casting thread, you should use a torque wrench. and for a honda d-series and h-series motor, there are two bolts that are simply impossible to access with a torque wrench any other way.

Sorry to hear of your problem. Typically, 10mm nuts are easy to remove. I can literally break the fastener on this small size with not much leverage. OTOH, the 12/14 mm wrench is my favorite because the length makes it possible to crack most any nut.

jim beam wrote in news:jrdvko$lm9$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

I knew even though I was nice ol dunder Jim would pull out the insults. You would almost be funny if you weren`t so pathaticly in love with your misbeguided belief in your intelect. KB PS I misspelled some words so you could wimper about that too!!!!!

The problem is that it's hard to get my hand in far enough to get some of those nuts. The leverage would be nice, but the important part is the extension. On some of the stuff a ratchet is fine, on others the ratchet is just a little bit too deep.

I swear, I'm going to make one of the things when I get some spare time.

--scott

actually kev, they're not insults, merely observations about your behavior. but the ability to connect what you do with what other people see is clearly not something you can do.

chump.

actually kev, they're not insults, merely observations about your behavior. but the ability to connect what you do with what other people see is clearly not something you can do.

chump.

oops, kev, you posted from the wrong account!

jim beam wrote in news:jri2uj$cvj$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

Yep looks like your fan pool just keeps getting bigger!!!!!! KB

Hopefully the onslaught of the front loading washing machines to the states has stopped also?

in urop those abominations are EVERYWHERE :-[

Same here in the US.

it's wonderful how people have such rose-tinted recollections of their childhood when mother did everything for them.

fact is, the tumble motion washers clean much better, other factors being equal. thus they use much less water and can use less detergent for the same cleaning too because of better through-fiber circulation. top loaders are little better than simply soaking in a bucket and poking with a stick,