Pump nitrogen into tyres, has any1 here done this ?

1 tyre shop offers to suck out air then pump nitrogen ( extractable from compressed & liquified air & fractional distillation, per my chemistry book ) into 4 tyres for M$15, claims [i] tyres will run cooler [ii] less loss of air/gas pressure.
Reply to
TE Cheah
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Reply to
George

Irrelevant. The only possible benefit would be to eliminate the oxygen in the tires and therefore possible slow down any process of oxidation of the rubber that might happen otherwise. However, modern tires routinely last their entire wear life with no problems other than the occasional flat.

So, if spending money makes you feel better you can do it, but it's irrelevant.

JazzMan

Reply to
JazzMan

JR wrote in article ...

No..... .........it is done on race cars because it is a dry, inert gas with predictable expansion rates - giving you better control of tire growth and the significant handling problems that could occur with unexpected tire size changes as the race goes on.

Helium was once used for this same purpose - not to "lighten" the tires.

Some teams are even running their bottled nitrogen through an air dryer to squeeze out those last few molecules of moisture.

Bob Paulin - R.A.C.E. Race Car Chassis Setup & Dial-in Services

Reply to
Bob Paulin

| | |JR wrote in article |... |> This is done on race cars where high speeds/friction is a concern. |> Johnr | |No..... |.........it is done on race cars because it is a dry, inert gas with |predictable expansion rates - giving you better control of tire growth and |the significant handling problems that could occur with unexpected tire |size changes as the race goes on. | |Helium was once used for this same purpose - not to "lighten" the tires. | |Some teams are even running their bottled nitrogen through an air dryer to |squeeze out those last few molecules of moisture.

You can get dry air from a dive shop that should have the same benefits. Rex in Fort Worth

Reply to
Rex B

It also makes the tire squeal higher when your cornering........

Bob

Reply to
BOB URZ

Reminds me of the time I used propane gas (explosive though) in a emergency and raelly cold weather. I did get 35 psi though after heating the bottle first. I did not have a blow out (no pun intended).

I put water in some lawn tools tire when needed.

Helium would seem to reduce traction in a light car.

Reply to
David Askari

Consider that regular air is approx 70% nitrogen already.

-Jeff Deeney-

Reply to
Jeff Deeney

Nearer 80% actually.

Reply to
George Brims

The ads on the radio here in Dayton actually mention that you can "top off" with regular air, if needed. They also say that nitrogen won't permiate the tire but oxygen will seep thru... so your tires stay properly inflated.

What a bunch of hooey - you're supposed to check pressure regularly, anyway - right? Ambient temperature still changes the pressure, right? Swampland in Florida is really prime real estate, right?

PoD

Reply to
Paul of Dayton

I've used nitrogen in my tyres. Years ago I worked for a large gases distribution company who promoted nitrogen for tyre inflation.

As I could get the gas free I used it. Found that I no longer needed to keep checking tyre pressure as my tyres never seemed to lose pressure. However, I would check anyway, every six months, coinciding with the need to get my car tested for a "Warrant of Fitness".

I'm retired now and don't use nitrogen any more, since I would have to buy it.

I remember the company had several clients who ran large fleets of trucks. To get the business usually they would arrange a trial. Some companies would go into great detail to check and measure the effect on tyre maintenance and tyre life etc, and continued to use nitrogen after the trial.

Also several aircraft fleet operators insisted on using nitrogen in aircarft tyres.

There are plenty of people who will say there is no reason for nitrogen to have any advantage over air and, on the face of it, theoretically you would think they were right.

In practice I think nitrogen has some advantages, and there are some hard headed commercial people who have done the tests and decided it makes sense.

Cheers,

John S

Reply to
John S.

Lets chuck a bit of maths, physics and logic at this. Air consists of 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen and 1% of a mixture of other gases. For arguments sake lets round those to 80% N and 20% other to simplify the maths.

If nitrogen doesn't leak out of car tyres then the most that the pressure of a properly inflated tyre could fall by is 20%. Say from 30psi to 24psi. Top that tyre up again with air and it now contains 96% nitrogen and 4% other. Why, because of the 30psi now in it, 24psi plus 80% of 6psi is N and the balance is other. So 28.8 out of 30psi is N = 96%.

The most it can now lose is that 4% or 1.2psi. Top that back up with air and it's now almost 100% N and zero other.

Car tyres stay fitted for many years and get topped up with air many times. By simple logic, if only the oxygen and other gases leaked out then most car tyres have nearly 100% nitrogen in them by now anyway. The premise that removing this and filling with more nitrogen can make any practical difference must fail.

Now for a second bite at the cherry with a further application of logic. If the oxygen and other gases leak out significantly faster than nitrogen then the tyre will initially need frequent reinflation and will soon contain nearly 100% nitrogen and leakage will cease.

If the oxygen and other gases don't leak out significantly faster than nitrogen then using pure nitrogen is of no benefit in the first place. However you slice it the logic surely indicates that the practice is pointless.

Unfortunately the ability to throw logic and deductive reasoning at a problem seems to be sorely lacking in most of humanity and certainly most of usenet.

Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines

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I'm not at all sure why women like men. We're argumentative, childish, unsociable and extremely unappealing naked. I'm quite grateful they do though.

Reply to
Dave Baker

For once I agree with you Dave. :)

The only possible benefit I can see for nitrogen inflation is to eliminate any oxidation resulting from oxygen in the tire, and since the process of making pure nitrogen removes moisture, using pure nitrogen would remove moisture from inside the tire as well. In a military combat situation the removal of oxygen would possibly help reduce the rate of combustion of the tires if hit with incidiaries, but that's only from the inside since the outside of the tire will still be exposed to oxygen in the atmosphere. None of these

*possible* benefits will make a hill of beans difference to the average car owner.

JazzMan

Reply to
JazzMan

There is no reason to fill tires on a street car with nitrogen. Race cars and aircraft are different. Nitrogen expands with heat at a more consistant rate than air and *may* offer some advantage. Aircraft, particularly commercial aitcraft, experience temperatures of -35 deg F or lower. This can cause condensation if the fill is air. This condensation will freeze and can cause an imbalance in the wheel assembly on landing. And in both cases nitrogen is at hand for other purposes, so it's also convenient.

Chas Hurst

Reply to
Chas Hurst

no differenece in my car issues since I got so many other car issues ahead of nitrogen in tires deal. I wonder if it will ever get to the front of my car fixes. Maybe if I bump of emptying the astrays and zeon lighting system.

Reply to
David Askari

The main point of using nitrogen is that "dry nitrogen" is readily available. This means it has no water vapor in it. Water vapor pressure changes dramatically with temperature. If you eliminate the water vapor, the pressure in the tire will not change nearly as much as the same tire filled with air, making handling of the vehicle much more predictable in a wider temperature range.

With aircraft tires, if you fill one of them with moist air ( in New Orleans perhaps ) and then take it to altitude where it is well below freezing, two things happen. The tire loses pressure as the water vapor condenses out of the mix, and the water might form blobs of ice that would throw the tire out of balance during a landing. Having a bunch of tires that would never be in balance at 200 mph would tend to mess up the rest of the hardware attached to it over time.

Reply to
nItpIk

I like that, pointing out ( my interpretation of your post) that water is really the issue (most air is nitrogen as you knew) here. You made me aware of the bigger picture and I can apply it to other things with presurised air. Bottom line, Iearned something and I am out of the debate.

Reply to
David Askari

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