R12, R134, what's next?

How long is patent for R134 valid? Pretty soon I think, right?

Isn't it about time for some environmental catastrophe to be discovered, which will force us all to switch from R134 to some new patented formulation?

How come we don't hear about the ozone hole anymore? It was all the rage in the early 90s, and I am fairly certain that R12 is still widely used outside united states.

viktor

Reply to
vmpolesov
Loading thread data ...

The change had nothing to do with patents in the first place... The patents for R12 went out in the 1950's, and a number of companies were making that product.

There is now a global ban relating to chlorofluorocarbons, but it is not totally phased out yet.

Measurements by the Japanese and by NASA have showed that the ozone hole is healing and the CFC levels are dropping..

formatting link
I just had my 90 Reatta converted to R134, and it works fine, is easy to come by. I had to replace the compressor anyway, due to a leak, so went the whole way.

Reply to
<HLS

A while back, I did some back-of-the-envelope calculations using figures from NASA and envirowhackos. I wildly overestimated world R12 production since its invention, and placed ALL of it into a cubic mile of stratosphere, and using NASA's estimate that 1 molecule of R12 destroys 100,000 molecules of ozone, I couldn't destroy all the ozone in that cubic mile, even when I shut off the sun's ability to make new ozone there. Now, my calculations could be off by an order of magnitude or two. But when you consider how hugely many cubic miles of stratosphere there are, it begins to be clear that my figures can't possibly be that far off.

It's incredibly arrogant to believe that mankind could possibly ever do anything to cause such major change to Earth as damaging the ozone hole or global warming.

Reply to
clifto

You are wrong about r12 being used alot outside of the US. Europe is big on this subject and will be using CO2 next as will the US.

Reply to
jfrancis311

LOL! Your ASSumptions just make an an ass out of you. Do you think it is

*cheap* to restore and maintain a fleet of classic vehicles, little one? You must be *extremely* young and stoopid!
Reply to
Roger Blake

Congrats, you broke the code!

Reply to
Roger Blake

Don't like much of anything about them, from the weird way they look (the spiral jobbies) to the color balance to the 60hz flicker that causes headaches and eyestrain on long exposure. Not to mention that, as others have pointed out in detail, the idea that they are some kind of environmental panacea is a fetid load of dingoes' kidneys.

Reply to
Roger Blake

There are some iodinated hydrocarbons which are now being bandied as better compounds for the future as well.

CO2 is certainly a viable candidate, as long as the systems are engineered to hold up with its use...

You may remember some years ago, a compressed air chiller was patented and developed for a while. It worked, more or less, but was dropped before any real attempts to commercialize it.

Reply to
<HLS

Why are you all assuming that the OP has a classic just because it uses R-12? Hell, my 93 Ford Ranger uses R-12 and I doubt anyone would consider it classic or vintage. And I have my own stash of R-12...

Reply to
M.M.

I have seen virtually nothing from the enviro-nazi camp that merits "cooperation." Just lie after lie after lie, thinly disguising a socialist/communist agenda.

Reply to
Roger Blake

Who cares how they look? If you don;t like the spiral jobbies you can find them that look just like a regular incandescent bulb. The latest CF's are not your old fashioned fluorescents. You can get then in a bunch of color temps and they're not 60 Hz any more. I like them because they give a lot more light for less power and a lot less heat so brighter bulbs can be used, i.e. a 100W (equivalent) in a 60W fixture. Give them a try, you might be surprised. The fact that the environmentalists supposedly love them doesn't mean they're totally without merit.

Reply to
M.M.

Besides, isn't ozone a major component of smog? pump the smog from LA and Mexico City up to the hole in the ozone layer and solve three problems at once.

Reply to
Wrongway Napolitano

Their idea of compromise is "do what we say and we'll let you live."

Reply to
clifto

Unfortunately, the treatments available for paranoia and antisocial behavior just haven't improved enough to help you, Roger...

Reply to
<HLS

The research shows that that is exactly what happened however, arrogant or not.

Reply to
<HLS

"Roger Blake"

Aviation and yacht racing is expensive. Restoring cars isn't.

Your posts - you sound like white trash.

- D

Reply to
Dll

If you keep repeating it, you might start to believe it.

Reply to
clifto

It's politically correct and shuts up the enviroterrorists.

Reply to
clifto

"clifto"

Uh huh... post up your math. I'd love to see it.

Might want to wildly guess at other sources of CFC as well - like just about every aerosol can on the planet, at the time.

- D

Reply to
Dll

To be fair, neither CFLs (the spiral jobbies) nor modern F32T8 4-foot long flourescents flicker at 60 HZ anymore. The electronic ballasts up-convert to a frequency in the kilohertz range where the eye can't detect any flicker at all. And the color rendering index of flourescents IS getting much better, but its still not as flat-spectrum as incandescent.

Reply to
Steve

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.