Re: California Motorcycle & Automobile Riding & Driving & Written Tests

I agree with you P. Roehling.

Let's be constructive and either organize a "contest" where everyone puts in 100 dollars and the first biker who genuinely passes the test gets to take the pot home .... or .... we figure out how to get the DMV to tell us the failure rates (which I'd guess to be in the very high nineties) for liter sized bikes.

What do others think?

"BrianNZ" wrote

It was no doubt unintentional on your part, but you just made me feel a lot better.

Do you have a reading comprehension problem?? I am a CMSP, or MSF (whichever you prefer) RiderCoach. I am based out of The Southern Calif area, just outside Los Angeles. I took, and passed, the Calif State DMV test at the DMV office in Newhall (City of Santa Clarita). I did it on a 1986 Honda GL1200I. If you read my previous posts as I suggested you do, you would find out that I compete in National "Top Gun" skills competitions, and several other "Free-style" skills competitions every year, on Goldwings. One of the guys I ride with and compete against practices by doing the BRC U-Turn box, on a Goldwing, using no hands. I also suggest that you watch the video:

You will get an idea of what we do, On Goldwings.

Yes.

I don't doubt that in the least. I have heard many people pretty much say the same thing.

If you read a little better, you would see that I am not the one who stated I did that test on a 50 cc bike and then a goldwing. I would never ride a bike that small. My 10 year old daughter rides a bigger dirt bike than that.

I very well might be hard pressed to pass it on a scooter. With the riding experience I have, I have trouble riding a bicycle.

I'll have to try it with no hands. Most likely won't pass. But, I do know someone who might.

Considering that I'm a Yankee(originally from New England), I don't think you will find me in any kind of suit from Virginia.

I know of at least a dozen people who took, and passed the CA DMV test. Oh yeah, we all did it on Goldwings.

I think it's a great conversation! Keep up all the good opinions.

As for facts, here is a test in progress although on a much smaller bike.

Notice that cars can drive and park and pull out where the DMV tester is standing, right in the middle of the test. Try that for wrecking your concentration on your last lap! :)

On the other side is a curb and a fence so you really can't stray without hitting something. That will keep you in the circle for sure! :)

This guy did the whole test on a pretty small bike never out of second gear with high throttle, a heavy left hand, and very heavy use of the right foot as can be seen if you look closely.

Uh, so what would YOU do instead, bright eyes? The State *can't* possibly test for high-speed riding abilitys -the liability alone would be impossible to shoulder- so they're left with a test that at *least* demonstrates a rider's low-speed control of the bike and his or her willingness to learn.

It's lot better than just turning newbies loose on the Freeway with no training at all so that God -or Darwin- can sort 'em out.

Better yet, take the MSF classes. Both of 'em. Then you can graduate to track days, and learn the high-speed skills that will *really* keep you from becoming the hood ornament on an oncoming Peterbilt.

(Or do you have no clue what it is?)

You should *really* read the whole thread before sticking your foot in it: I passed the California test on my first try riding a Honda VFR800 that's not what you'd call a bike that's suited to low speed maneuvers.

I didn't find it particularly difficult.

Dang, Jim. your giving away all our secrets. Dragging the rear brake is very key to doing the test on a big bike. It allows you to keep power to the rear wheel and ride the circle smooth and stable.

I won't let it happen again! :)

After watching some of my (richer) mates parenting skills it seems common to give the kids whatever they want, then if they 'play up', threaten to take the toys away.

I was more of a "If you want it, you will have to be good and save for it" type of father. Of course, it was still my money, but the boys felt they had earned it and treated the new 'toy' with respect , rather than just another thing that will be replaced.

I just work on the theory that parents should do what they can to make their kids lives easier than their own upbringing, but just handing out toys doesn't cut it. There has to be some work ethic involved....OMG I've turned into my parents.....aaaarrrgggghhhh!

Why not you?? Your the one that called those of us that passed the test on big bikes liars.

Geezus, google "FOIA".

The "truth" is that you're struggling to justify your own inability to master the test.

More than that because you have to do two complete circles without getting outside the lane, then you have to repeat it in the opposite direction after threading the cones.

"BrianNZ" wrote

Eh. That's akin to closing the barn door after the horse has run off.

My mother had a different theory altogether: she had me open a savings account when I was nine "so you can save up and buy a new bicycle when you want one". So I saved up for two years, mowing lawns and the like, and finally accumulated enough money to buy the new bike.

But when I went to withdraw the money, I discovered that I had to have my mother's signature to take anything back *out* of the bank account, and when I asked her for it she told me "You don't need a new bike! You should be buying your school clothes with that money!"

I won't claim I didn't learn a lesson from that, but it wasn't the one she'd had in mind.

Mothers are always right. I bet you started a cash savings of your own real quick!

I still have the old tobacco tin I used to stash my hard earned mowing money into....it only has about $50 in it now, but thats handy to have sometimes.

Mine had their own approach. They decided to give me an allowance, and give me a car, and wanted me to save some out of my allowance. The trouble is that the cost of gas to get back and forth to school was more than the allowance. And before you say "ride the bus" they didn't want me to attend the school to which the bus went.

They meant well, but they didn't really have a clue how to raise a kid.

Also take a look at this one:

That box is 13'x 13'. And the rider in that video will most likely show up if you organize the "contest".

That's a good rider but to be fair, it's a hell of a lot easier doing a set of loops without any lines than doing them inside a pre defined set of lines.

There's not only the physical but the psychological working when you have a definate set of lines to work within. And when you have an instructor looming over your shoulder failing you for a single imperfect loop.

Bear in mind though, that the California DMV test is the test a "beginner" would take in order to get their license - while this rider is probably not anywhere near a beginner.

In fact, I think, just maybe, based only on my review of this mpeg, and save for the diameter, this rider would have failed the California DMV test.

You'll notice this rider, while good, isn't keeping a perfect circle which the California DMV test requires. On the other hand, his "imperfect" circle does look tighter than that of the California DMV test, so I should cut him some slack on his technique.

I'll bet if he had a 13 foot circle painted on the ground, he'd not be able to do what he just did. Try it some day. You can loop around with abandon when you get to choose roughly where to go - but it gets infinately harder if someone else tells you exactly where to go and you have to keep a perfect circle to do so without straying outside white lines you can't even see even if you were looking which you should not do.

I can handle the low speeds. It's getting lost in the sea of cones that will get me. I'm not as smooth as those guys though. But I can do a U turn in my driveway or a country lane.

I learned this taking the MSF class. It's a LOT easier to do a u turn (or any turn) when you get to choose roughly where to go. It's those little variations that you're allowed to make. The MSF class u turn box, for example, is way easy because you get to choose your lines for the most part.

Think how hard it would be if in a u-turn box they painted lines you had to exactly follow.

The point I wanna make is it's a lot HARDER to make a u turn or circle or figure 8 or whatever when you have a perfect radius set of lines constraining your every move and in addition an eagle eyed instructor grading every movement.

It means nothing to say you can do it. You must consistently do it given EXACTLY the lines (2'3") to be constrained by without any wavering or variation thereof whatsoever (as measured by the observer).

This is the same rider that can do the BRC U-turn box, on a Goldwing, without using his hands. You trust me when I say he would pass the DMV test.

He would and has. This video was shot on a practice day. He usually turns 9' circles inside that box. He is a two time "Top Gun" Skills competition national champion. Try this video:

The "Snake" is an S-turn similar to the one in the BRC. On this one the lines are 4' apart. the outside diameter is 9' and the inside is 5'. In the BRC the lines are 6' apart, the outside diameter is 15' and the inside is 9'.

Also we do a weave that is similar the the DMV test. The difference is the DMV cones are set at 12' and the lane is 7'11" wide. The weave lane we use in competition is only 5' wide and the cones are set at 10'. And remember that you can use almost any size bike on the DMV test. We can only use Goldwings, usually GL1500's and GL1800's.

Dave, I'm not posting all this just to blow our horns, I'm trying to show Mr. Benson that there are indeed many people who ride Goldwings that can and have passed the DMV test, on our Goldwings. He seems to think that we are liars, just because he has never seen it happen.

Try it some day. You can loop around with abandon