Re: GM's Volt - The ugly math of low sales, high costs

Except of course that there's much more to it (an internal combustion engine being just one of those many things) than just that, if you're referring to the Volt.

It's a simple comparison, complexified by the fact that the *infrastructure* for the IC engine (and the associated powertrain/transmission) is so firmly ensconced.

But disregarding established infrastructure, the electric motor/battery motif is *orders of magnitude simpler* than that for the IC model. Just think of the *machining alone*..... I think there is more machining in the crankshaft alone of an IC engine, than in a whole electric motor -- which is what, an armature, some copper, and two bearings?? LOL

I had occasion to take apart a simple transmission.... I'm still in shock from the complexity, the machining.... unbelievable.

Now, I understand, as this article vividly illustrates, the high "cost of setup", but goddamm, this just seems way disproportionate.

Part of the problem is our insistence on 100 hp electric motors.... when the old VW beetle had a whole 42 hp. We're sucking up our fuel reserves, yet we won't make compromises. We now have *bevies* of 600 hp cars, and germany has a 750 hp production police car. holy shit....

We've had electric pickups (Ford EV's, iirc?) for over 30 years, iirc. Yeah, 1,000# of lead acid batteries, but, hey, it worked.

where does electricity come from? where do batteries come from? do you know anything about the losses in the charge/discharge cycle?

God?

Good Christian (poss. Mormon) engineers?

do you

Well, I don't know what this would have to do with the $45,000 Volt, but my understanding is these cycles are ackshooly thermodynamically perty efficient -- even in lead-acid batts.

And I DO KNOW that a 40 hp lectric motor uses a LOT LESS lectricity than a

But more relevant is the cost to REPLACE these batteries.... sumpn on the order of replacing an IC engine or transmission?? LOL

And hey, ahma BIG fan/proponent of electric cars.... just not $40,000 electric cars with $10,000 battery packs.

And it weighed a whole 1600 pounds. Now put a half a ton of batteries on it and see how it runs with 42 hp.

So what percentage of cars on the road have 600 horsepower? And if you compare you'll find that some of them get the same kind of gas mileage as that old Volkswagen.

Produced for 4 years from 1998 to 2002 and then discountinued. A full ton of lead acid batteries, or half a ton of NiMH. Note that the range was about 80 miles and it took 8 hours to recharge. The Baker Electric worked about as well in 1900.

The simple fact is that electric cars have been available for more than a century and there has been precious little improvement in their performance in that time--they still have short range and take forever to charge.

Well then figure out a way to make one that complies with US safety laws and has acceptable performance for less than those prices.

You have apparently fallen for the con, hook line and sinker. Along with bicycle helmets, and now, crawling helmets for toddlers.

Your post suggested that you weren't aware that a Volt isn't solely an electric car but in fact a hybrid, which is a much more involved and complex vehicle and justifies a higher price.

If you're attempting to tout your vast knowledge by relating a story about your experience disassembling a transmission, you're quite obviously a novice. In addition, your comments relating to and elucidating your belief in children's stories and fairy tales render you as someone whom I would have no interest in either establishing nor continuing a dialog with.

Ackshooly in 1974 it was 2,000 lbs. Now the Beetle weighs 3,000 lbs. If you add 1,000#of batteries, you'd also be removing about 1,000# of engine/transmission, eh? Ought to run pretty good!

OK, 250 hp then.... A mere 6x the ole beetle.

And if you

Really? My 1971 Datsun 510 got near-40 mpg.

Seems like it is more a problem of our expectations. Notice how "population control" disappeared from the lexicon 30 years ago, as well. Replaced by this Orwellian chant for "growing economies". Ever ask why economies need to grow? Pretty much for the same reason we need 300 hp cars.... or 600 hp.

The k00k who would attempt to shed a positive light on ANYTHING mormon, claiming another has 'fallen for the con', pegs both the imbecile and irony meters.

Not that much more. The Volt IC engine is used solely to power a backup generator. You can buy one of these at Home Depot for $399..

Visavis the Prius-type hybrid, where the IC engine is actually a car engine,

• transmission, and is *still* 1/2 the price of a Volt.

Funny, in that grand syntactically correck effort to insult me with grand syntactical correckness, you ended your syntactically correck drivel with a preposition. How could you do such a thing?

You were proly that rare toddler that DID need a crash helmet whilst toddling. Either that or you weren't sufficiently breast fed.

"anything mormon"??? WTF, you write in semi-litirit code, as well?

If in fact his(?) otherwise empty, miserable existence is so conspicuously impoverished, wanting and devoid of actual meaning that for it to afford him any value whatsoever he desperately resorts to cruising newsgroups for superciliously perceived errors in spelling, grammar, diction or punctuation (therewith providing his sole raison d'etre), far be it from me to deny him that crucial, pretentious perquisite.

See what just a li'l remedial tutoring will do? That was syntactically MUCH better!

NOW, all's you gotta do is work on your LOGIC, esp. that gratuitous (and incorreck) use of the conditional.

Next, go buy a Ford Ranger EV, put a Home Depot generator on it, now you essentially have a Volt. Now you can travel clear cross country AND power yer Kindle, mebbe learn how to write a proper englich sentence.

Since your response is so totally irrelevant to the point under discussion I am tempted to just plonk you as a loon, however I'll give you a chance to defend your argument first. How does an article on "crawling helmets for toddlers" address the issue of selling cars in the US.

Regardless of how one feels about the laws, if one is going to sell cars in the US one must comply with them.

If you think that they should not apply to electric cars, then please do persuade the Congress to change them to include that exception.

So please tell us the SKU of this 60KW generator that you can buy at Harbor Freight for $399.

And in 1974 it has more than 42 horsepower too.

If a VW engine and transmission weighed a thousand pounds, which it doesn't. Find out what it weighs, and compare that to the weight of a

So when did Volkswagen start making Datsuns?

Yep. We expect to not be restricted to staying within 50 miles of home.

Since you can barely read the lines themselves, no surprise you can't read between the lines. Get over yerself.