Re: GM slashes Chevy Volt prices to spur flagging sales

"According to The Detroit News, Chevrolet spokeswoman Michelle Malcho said that GM has a 140-day supply of Chevy Volts, which is double the amount that many analysts say is healthy, and even then, 70 days worth of inventory is still on the high side to some car dealerships. Obviously, this isnt a good sign for the Volt.

To try and get the hybrid cars rolling off the lots, Chevrolet has dropped the price of the 2012 models by $5,000, and $4,000 for the

2013 models in order to make room for the 2014 models. This means youll be able to grab a 2012 Volt for a $39,995 base price, supplemented by up to $7,500 in tax credit and a new $5,000 incentive."

===========================================

2014 is when Gen 2 comes out?? Wasn't there sumpn where the Gen 2 will be $10K cheaper?? And better? Proly will still have planetary gears, tho.... lol If people are hip to THAT price drop, I don't think many people will bite now. Even at another $5k off, the pruis is still a much more economical overall commuter car.

I'm def'ly ripe for the Gen 2, but by then mebbe the Volt will have some less complexified competition. Or mebbe I'll just get a Leaf with a Honder generator tucked in the back.... lol

At $10K cheaper, KiddingHisSelf will be able to buy 24 of them, or some shit. Lookee, Mommy, I'm passing all these gas stations in all different colors.....

Reply to
Existential Angst
Loading thread data ...

Now, now. Chevrolet sold 700 Corvettes in 1955 -- the third year of production. Give it time.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

Sorry, that's incompatible with Bonkers' and EA's hilarious obsessions. I think your dig about the lawnmower deck on the Aptera really sent Bonkers into overdrive, and EA can't resist throwing in his one cent.

Reply to
whoyakidding's ghost

We're still waiting for the 17-year Apteras to hatch. The newsman says the ground has been too cold, with all of the rain we've been having.

But they'll be out and humming in the trees before long. Did you ever see their headlights? They're red. Creepy.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

Hopefully the Gen 2 will take off. GM did an admirable science project, proly should get a prize. Now it's time to make it practical -- as I described to you earlier -- by addressing "true usage intent".

The bottom line nitty gritty is a Leaf with a built-in backup "anti-strandedness" Honder generator. Heh, no planetary fukngears, no clutches, no nuthin ceptin a fukn switch. Beyond the reading and general comprehension level of KiddingCan'tGetLaid, of course, but, hey, there it is.

If Nissan gets hip to this nitty gritty, the Volt will be dead. Too bad, cuz GM was on the right track, and had they not been obsessed with engineering-for-engineering's sake, they could have done the Leaf-with-a-genset ditty, and proly no one could touch them. Cuz, well, they woulda had mebbe $100 mil in R&D, not $1-2 BILLION.

They can still make an over-priced convertible model for assholes like Kidding. Lookee, Mommy, I'm passing gas stations with my hair (or what's left of it) blowing in the bloatvolt wind.....

Reply to
Existential Angst

...

====================

"They can still make an over-priced convertible model for assholes like Kidding."

I'm sure a Cadillac dealer would be happy to give KiddingNoOne a $10,000 trade-in for the overpriced, overweight Chevy Volt he got suckered into buying if the Cadillac ELR ever comes out:

formatting link
KiddingNoOne can then brag on Usenet how smart he is, how well off he is, and how he couldn't resist upgrading to an even better "investment". ;>)

Reply to
Jonathan Banquer

It's not a marketplace that I follow, but my impression is that GM took a shot at a market that's between a rock and a hard place. It's too expensive to compete with family sedans, and too inexpensive to compete with exotics.

At $70,000+, the Tesla S is selling above projections -- over 4,700 in Q1, but watch out for "sales" that are just dealer inventory. Anyway, Musk is a smart dude and he built an exotic market niche before he built the sedan. The roadster, which really is a Lotus Elise with an electric motor and over 5,000 Li-ion cells, is 'way cool and goes like hell. So when he put the sedan on the market, he had the cachet he bought from Lotus but which rubs off on the Tesla S sedan. He learned his marketing lesson from Jaguar's experience 60 years ago.

(Tesla Roadster)

formatting link
(Lotus Elise)

formatting link
So he can sell an exotic sedan and catch the rich people who want to be the first on their block with something very cool -- no Chevies for them, nosirree. In terms of cost efficiency, the thing makes absolutely no sense at all.

Meantime, the much cheaper Toyota Hybrid plug-in goes only 11 miles on battery power. Ford's Fusion Energi goes 21. They're nibbling at the edges of "plug-in" capability. The volt goes 40 miles, which is in a different category -- lots more commuters will be in range.

But it's at a bad price point: too much or too little. And Chevy doesn't have the kind of cachet that Tesla has, so they have to go down.

That's going to be tough to do. They could do what Toyota and Ford have done -- charge less for much less capability. Or maybe they have another engineering idea, one that doesn't include three prime movers under one hood.

BTW, weight is not the hangup. The Volt's curb weight is 3,780 lb. The Tesla S is 4,647 lb and it hasn't seemed to hurt them. Even the Nissan Leaf, which, like the Tesla, has no IC engine, and is quite small, weighs 3,300 lb. The state of the technology apparently doesn't give you a lot of choice, if you want to build a conventional sedan with a lot of battery power.

As you can see from the figures above, it won't be much of a weight-saver, by the time you add up the engine, transmission, and generator/alternator. Whether it would save much money is an open question.

The big picture, IMO, is that all of the car manufacturers dabbling with the various electric configurations are shooting at moving targets. As consumers, we have little or no experience with these things, and we don't know what we want. Meantime, the technology evolves, and we don't know when we'll be able to get our dreamed-for electric car.

If you want something now, you have a variety of imperfect choices. But they'll each be right for someone, and when they are, you'll have happy consumers. We appear to have some right now, including one on this NG.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

How will the fuel cure his complaints about cupholders and airbags and computers?

How is the fuel going to make them any lighter than current vehicles?

EA doesn't really care about the weight or complication either. He'd love to have lobster if only it cost less than a dollar meal.

Reply to
whoyakidding's ghost

Uhhhhh....... leave them out??

Guilty as charged!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Altho I'm not THAT fond of lobster.... plus filter-fish are fairly contaminated w/ pollutants.

And assholes like Kidding will overpay for a lobster meal just to say, Mommy!!!! Lookeeemeeee, profligately consuming BUTT AGAIN!!!! I'm BETTER than Angst, better than Angst!!!!!!!

No dear, you are stupider than Angst.....

Altho, I could see Kidding getting his lobster meal at Red Lobster, with the rest of the riff-raff.

Reply to
Existential Angst

Oh, Ed, I appreciate your reading alladat.... And notice that I don't use "diesel-electric locomotive... with batteries" anymore.... rather "shitty li'l backup genset, for anti-strandedness".

But really, I gotta find sumpn even simpler, that the self-obsessed assholes like Kidding can grasp.... Right now, the only thing Kidding can grasp -- lit'ly and fig'ly -- is GM's dick.

Reply to
Existential Angst

Let's see your patent. What? It was a usenet brain fart that someone "almost" implemented? LOL

Who gives a rats ass what you said or will say? You're competing with crackpots like Bonkers now. The 2000 pound $20k homebuilt 99% Volt was a good start, and the "build it lighter and cheaper with carbon fiber" raised the bar even higher. I suppose the 30 pound roof rack is yet another thing you COULD do if only you weren't so busy here complaining that signing up for twitter is a roadblock to sharing your great ideas with Nissan! As if the complaining was more productive and took less time than signing up!

Here's what you should do next: email VW and tell them that you know how to put 2 extra seats in the XL-1 without raising the weight, AND build it to sell for $20k. Then all you have to do is sit back and wait for the royalty checks to roll in. Don't forget to CC the Queen and Bieber.

Reply to
whoyakidding's ghost

One motor. Then you can make the rest of the car as simple as you want

-- or as simple as you can find a market for, which isn't very simple if you want more than a narrow little market.

For example, when I bought my deluxe Dodge Caravan some years ago, I had to wait over a month to get manual roll-up windows.

We're talking, or I thought we were talking, about a car that doesn't burn gasoline or diesel and that doesn't have a load of batteries.

It would be the same weight as a conventional, gasoline-fueled car -- much lighter than an EV.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

We already have that with ICE vehicles. Or do you mean fuel cells? If so, they're highly unlikely in our lifetime, and while they might get away with one motor, they'll be anything but simple. And they'll almost certainly include batteries for regeneration.

If purchasing power continues to decline there could be more econobox models. I can't see how anything can _practically_ get cheaper, lighter or simpler than a Smart ForTwo though.

That wait would be until hell freezes over for most models these days. :) Even cars like the Smart include power windows (easier to consolidate models), along with all the other little things that are proving that well engineered complex systems can be combined to produce affordable and reliable products.

With such a huge variety of vehicles available, I'm amazed that anybody thinks there's a superior design that's been overlooked. But for those who believe that life was better with carburetors and speedo cables, there's no shortage of entrepreneurs who'll sell a rejuvenated whatever, usually for less than the cost of something new. An example

formatting link
Neither is there any problem adding AC.
formatting link
It STIL wouldn't have a proper heater, but apparently those weren't required in the good old days. :)

Reply to
whoyakidding's ghost

No, I mean that CNG vehicles are relatively light, the same as gasoline-powered vehicles. They're lighter than simple EVs, like the Leaf (my similar-size Focus is 700 pounds lighter than a Leaf), and they're lighter than any kind of hybrid in comparable sizes.

It appears that fuel prices are stable or declining. I don't see much economic impetus for alternative-fuel vehicles, although CNG is a longer-term possibility.

True. But then you can't fix them when they go wrong without paying ridiculous sums for replacement parts. I paid over $500 to have the electric windows repaired on my mother's T-bird. That's why I went to roll-ups. I've been able to fix them myself for close to 50 years

-- sometimes with a hammer and a file. d8-)

But my last two cars have had electrics and I've had no trouble with them, for nine years now.

In my MG, the Smith heater came out in March and went back in in October. 'Saved a few racing pounds, ya' know.

Don't get me wrong. I find the present state of automobile engineering to be amazing. I'm getting ready to write some articles about it; I've covered the subject off and on for 40 years; and I'm still amazed at what they can do today.

I do object to the marketing-driven proliferation of geejaws, particularly communications devices that distract drivers' attention. But like a lot of RCM members, I don't like feeling helpless with expensive things that I can't fix myself.

End of Luddite rant.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

Vehicle repair is mostly the same as it always has been. Owners who make an effort can do almost anything, and save money over paying someone else. Although most people will find it better to stick to their own specialty than struggle at a new one. I didn't find the price of an Auto Engenuity setup to be a big deal. Whereas most people do, making it all the less likely that they'll have their own hoist or the determination to do their own repairs. I find that most (not you) of the people who complain about cars being hard to fix don't even change their own oil, and never did do much beyond alternator replacements etc., which they can still do. The other day I was asked to look into a stalling problem on a friend's car. Symptoms pointed to intermittent idle control. I wasn't familiar with the model but the owner had a Haynes manual. In a few minutes I located the IAC valve and determined that it would be easy to remove and clean to see if it had any effect.

Things have changed. Even many simple parts (think tail light lens) are expensive. The worst part is being held hostage to dealer prices if the aftermarket doesn't provide competition.

Funny you should mention that. I just upgraded to a Galaxy S4. Phone part paired perfectly with the Volt, but the contact list didn't transfer. Supposedly Onstar will download a firmware update, but not on the weekend. I think it's great that we have this tech, and that it probably only added a pound to the weight a few dollars to the price.

Reply to
whoyakidding's ghost

Bingo. Multiple new ones, bevies of parts destined to fail. You got the answer, and don't even know it.

I didn't find the

LESS likely?? HOw likely is that from the gitgo??? fukn idiot, fukn moron....

I find that most (not you)

Clairvoyant -- again -- are we??

The other day I was asked

And.....???

Gee, you got it again!!! Pray fer yer planetary gearset, dood....

Do you think your resultant chubby will subside any time soon?

Reply to
Existential Angst

Almost every electrical problem I've had with vehicles was fixed by cleaning and oiling.

Well, I didn't oil the Mass Air Flow sensor elements after cleaning them.

formatting link
jsw

Reply to
Jim Wilkins

The Luddites were correck.

Reply to
Existential Angst

Most things AREN'T "destined to fail," at least not in the normal lifetime of a vehicle, and especially not during the warranty period when it doesn't matter much anyway. Your brain is one of the exceptions.

Reply to
whoyakidding's ghost

The problem is an electric that charges has a relatively long charge time.

A hybrid still requires a gasoline motor, even a plug in one, and there is a weight penalty to the system, plus an increase in cost from having dual s ystems.

There are some neat specialty cars but the cost is high for stuff like a Te sla.

With a gasoline car you can fuel up in 5 minutes and then drive for four ho urs across a state. When an electric car can do the same in the same time f rom a minimal charge (Some electrics go "bricked" when they run down comple tely and cannot be recharged) then stuff will start to change on performanc e, but price will still be a question.

Reply to
David E. Powell

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.