Steam cars

The licenses were likely about protecting jobs and when it came to steam cars there were no operator jobs to protect.

Brent wrote in news:gjbc80$smv$ snipped-for-privacy@news.motzarella.org:

There's surprisingly little literature available online on this subject.

From the scanty info I've been able to dig up, boiler operator licenses are required for high-pressure stationary boilers. The steam generators used in steam cars would be considered low-pressure, and thus not fall under operator licensure requirements.

I found two interesting NY Times articles from 1900 that do deal briefly with license requirements. You need to log in to get the PDF, but an HTML version is available through Google's cache. Seems to me as though the laws were enacted mostly out of spite, and out of dislike of those new-fangled motor cars. Apparently manufacturers would help buyers obtain the necessary license in order to make a sale.

Stationary engineers licenses (boiler operators) have nothing to do with protecting jobs but a lot to do with preventing boiler explosions. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a steamer car, even one operated by a licensed engineer. Boiler safety takes a good amount of infrastructure and regulation to prevent it becoming the bomb it inherently is. That care won't happen with a car. I was a licensed stationary engineer and have operated a variety of boilers. They are bad MF's.

--Vic

Boiler explosion prevention was achieved with better construction and design.

Most licensing comes with a 'public safety' excuse but it's intent is protecting existing businesses and workers from new competition.

And that's what it comes down to, the licensing doesn't actually bring about safety, it just serves as a way of restricting entry into a particular line of work.

I think I'd rather be F'd by a bad M than stand within a hundred yards of a boiler that hadn't been safety-checked for ages - less of a bang ;-)

To some extent you are right.. Construction, design, metallurgy, corrosion control, etc, helped make this a less dangerous field.

It is still dangerous. Any time you have gas under pressure (and steam is a gas), you are operating a hazardous system.. Hazardous and dangerous are two related, but different, things.

You'll love this site, as will anybody else who actually paid attention in thermodynamics:

and particularly It sounds like a complicated car to operate even by the not very user friendly standards of the horseless carriage era.

Superheated steam at 600 psig is not for people unwilling to learn what they're doing, and pay attention... which hopefully includes submitting to the periodic tender mercies of a boiler *inspector* specially trained on what looks like an intricate little fire-tube boiler (the engines were supposedly proofed at the factory to 1200 psig, but damage or neglected maintenance can make the boiler as found a considerably less trustworthy item. Modern nondestructive inspection tools might be interesting,

Back in the day, there were even a few steam motorcycles.

Fun article about the Dobie, a rare competitor to the Stanley back in the heyday of steam cars:

As for licensing, some states or cities make exceptions that allow operation of low-pressure boilers and boiler-like hot water systems for residential heating with no license at all, and limited licenses that are easier to get for low-horsepower high pressure boilers. One implication is that a car could be subject to a lot of jurisdictions. I honestly don't know who'd claim jurisdiction or how they'd know, on a homemade car. If you proposed to make and sell steam cars, this mess would have to be resolved.

There are still some operating full-size steam trains here and there in the US as rideable tourist attractions, as well as scale model trains that kids can ride at historical parks -- the people who run and maintain those might have some insight into these matters, though I doubt that they usually cross licensing jurisdictions.

--Joe

There is a newish steam powered tour boat on Caddo Lake between Texas and Lousiana.

I was very interested in it, and when we took the tour, I found the engine was made in Fredricksburg, Texas.

I have no idea what regulations are involved, but the boat functioned quite well,

A few 2x4 end scraps and pine knots took us a long way.

I dont see why this sort of engine couldnt be used again for automobiles, but this is not an area I know much about.

If we dont have to run at 70 mph, this sort of thing could work.

Jay Leno has one of the original steamers, and was on Speed not long ago showing it off. You have to drain the condensed water out of the 90 wt (?) oil before you fire her up, but it comes up to steam quickly, and ran rather well.

"HLS" wrote in news:fzf6l.64$% snipped-for-privacy@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com:

You're thinking of his 1925 Doble, surely.

The primary problem with the Doble was its rather stratospheric price (about $9500 in 1925), which was OK for Howard Hughes, but not for too many people other than him.

I didnt get the name of the car, unfortunately.

I seem to remember that Lear tried to come up with a modernized steam car in the 70's, gave up on it....One would think that if he could build a dependable corporate jet, he could build a steam car, but maybe some technology is just not well adapted to success.

No, operator licenses are still required in most places, again except for operating steam cars.

I know most of the steam cars were more or less flash-type boilers. Did licensing laws negate need for license with flash boilers for stationary or boat operation?

Don Stauffer wrote in news:495a344a$0$16045 $ snipped-for-privacy@news.qwest.net:

Have you considered contacting the Steam Automobile Club of America?

I didn't say anything about being required or not, only that licensing is usually about economics not safety.

Steam tractors, launches, automobiles as well as some other mobile steam did not require operators licenses. The boilers do require inspections though depending on the application and the state it is in.

About 25-30 years ago there was a Howard Hughes made-for-TV movie that I saw. In this movie, and remember, this was a glamorized movie, he talks to the mechanic who was working on his steam car. The mechanic tells about all the cooling fins in the car, how fast it can run and states the time that it takes to get up to speed from a complete stop. Mr. Hughes grabs a crowbar and throws it at the car. The crowbar hits the door and a plume of water vapor rises from the door. Mr. Hughes walks away from the garage and as he does says "Scrap the steamer".

On a side note, a few years ago there were about 3 or 4 deaths at a Michigan or Minnesota state fair. An antique steam tractor exploded and killed them. You have to fear these things, or at the very least, give them lots of respect.

As far as cars are concerned, nothing I would like to see more is for them to make a big come back.Modern technology can solve any modern day steam car problems, metinks so. cuhulin

*****Years ago when I was young, my mother used to can a lot of vegetables, meat, etc.. The cans, after being sealed, were then sterilized in a pressure cooker. You really had to watch those damn things..They had pressure relief valves, but if they didnt work, the pressure cooker could explode, go through the roof, kill you.

Nowadays, there are still pressure cookers, but they mostly use dead weight pressure relief valves. These are all but foolproof, although the fools keep improving their technology too.

I find it hard to accept that we cannot tame the steam car. Would be a heck of a university competition, wouldnt it?

ooops, I had meant to say steam cars. cuhulin