2003 Camry SE rack and pinion steering. Mileage 80K. In the last few weeks the steering has felt different than normal. Feels like the power steering cuts out momentarily. It goes back and forth - from being easy to turn the wheel, to being hard, back to being easy, etc. etc.
There's no unusual noise to speak of, just the back and forth easy to hard I just mentioned.
Checked the power steering fluid and it was low. With a cold engine the fluid level was right at the base of the resevoir. With a hot engine the fluid level rose slightly, but was still below the HOT MIN mark. In fact with a hot engine the fluid level was at the COLD MIN mark.
A mechanic friend of mine who last worked on this car in December '07 tells me that the low fluid level indicates a leak somewhere in the steering system. He had topped off the fluid level back in December '07, and tells me that since the fluid doesn't normally evaporate - even in this 16 month time frame - that's why he thinks it's a leak.
Can this low fluid level cause the symptoms I'm having with the steering?
It could be a series of things. my 2000 Camry LE had the same symptoms and needed a connector joint that connected the steering wheel to the steering box. Also if your power steering belt is loose it will do this to. But since you don't seem to be hearing any noise, I highly doubt it would be that. Also your rack and pinion assembly may be defective. It will share the same symptoms. However in your situation with the power steering fluid level being so low, I would assume that would be the problem. Take it to your Toyota dealer and have them look at it. Just for inspections, they don't charge anything...at my dealer anyways. You better make sure that is the same at your dealer. Good luck. The Camry is a great car, but can sometimes be a headache!
A low PS fluid level can cause the symptoms you are describing, and as your mechanic friend indicated, a low fluid level generally indicates a leak somewhere. The most common locations for leaks are the PS pump, hose fittings, and the outer ends of the steering rack. Running the system low on fluid can cause further damage so top off the fluid and check its level frequently until you get the source of the leak repaired. If topping off the fluid level eliminates the problem, you have narrowed down the possible causes.
A loose accessory drive belt can also cause the symptoms you are describing, but the noise is generally accompanied by a squealing sound from the accessory drive belt.
One more possible cause of the symptoms is a steering shaft universal joint that is binding.
You may also have a combination of problems - a binding steering shaft u-joint and a leak in the PS system.
I'm taking the car to the Toyota dealer tomorrow. I've got Toyota's Gold warranty which covers everything in the steering system except for the drive belt. They do have a $105 diagnostic charge; but if they find and fix a problem that's covered under the warranty then I don't have to pay the diagnostic charge out of pocket.
Worst case scenario would be if they see the fluid is low, pour some fluid in to bring it up to the correct level, my steering problem goes away, and then I'm out $105 for their diagnostic charge. And knowing car dealers, they'd probably also charge me $50 labor for tilting the can and pouring the fluid in.
Best case scenario would be if they check the system for leaks, and either find a leak, and/or find something else wrong with the steering system. In that case, the repairs would be covered under the warranty, and then I won't have to pay the diagnostic charge.
Being that a low fluid level generally indicates a leak somewhere, hopefully they'll find one.
I'm taking the car to the Toyota dealer tomorrow. I've got Toyota's Gold warranty which covers everything in the steering system except for the drive belt. They do have a $105 diagnostic charge; but if they find and fix a problem that's covered under the warranty then I don't have to pay the diagnostic charge out of pocket.
Worst case scenario would be if they see the fluid is low, pour some fluid in to bring it up to the correct level, my steering problem goes away, and then I'm out $105 for their diagnostic charge. And knowing car dealers, they'd probably also charge me $50 labor for tilting the can and pouring the fluid in.
Best case scenario would be if they check the system for leaks, and either find a leak, and/or find something else wrong with the steering system. In that case, the repairs would be covered under the warranty, and then I won't have to pay the diagnostic charge.
Being that a low fluid level generally indicates a leak somewhere, hopefully they'll find one.
Thanks again.
Fortunately, PS system leaks are generally pretty easy to find.
Ray - your diagnostic guess was spot on. It turned out that the steering shaft u-joint was binding. They replaced the u-joint and it was covered under my extended warranty. $0 out of my pocket, so I'm a happy camper.
One thing that did bother me was something the service rep told me. He said they had checked for leaks, and didn't find any. The only problem they found was the bad u-joint. When I then asked him how the power steering fluid could be low if there were no leaks, his reply was "Oh that's just due to attrition. There's a certain amount of evaporation that takes place with these fluids."
That statement bothers me. When I had talked with my mechanic friend about this he told me that in a closed system, there's nowhere for the fluid to go if there are no leaks - and that in the 30 years he's been a mechanic he has never heard of power steering fluid evaporating.
Toyota did top off the fluid for me, no charge. It probably took about a cup or two.
Ray - your diagnostic guess was spot on. It turned out that the steering shaft u-joint was binding. They replaced the u-joint and it was covered under my extended warranty. $0 out of my pocket, so I'm a happy camper.
One thing that did bother me was something the service rep told me. He said they had checked for leaks, and didn't find any. The only problem they found was the bad u-joint. When I then asked him how the power steering fluid could be low if there were no leaks, his reply was "Oh that's just due to attrition. There's a certain amount of evaporation that takes place with these fluids."
That statement bothers me. When I had talked with my mechanic friend about this he told me that in a closed system, there's nowhere for the fluid to go if there are no leaks - and that in the 30 years he's been a mechanic he has never heard of power steering fluid evaporating.
Toyota did top off the fluid for me, no charge. It probably took about a cup or two.
Anyway thanks again to everyone for your replies!
- Dave
******** It is good to know that all that time I spent calling on dealer service departments comes in handy once in a while.
Dealership service reps (also known as Assistant Service Mangers, ASM's, Service Advisors, Service Consultants, and Team Managers) are not always as knowledgeable about cars as the technicians who work on them, so they sometimes come up with implausible explanations.
The fluid used in the power steering system in your car is automatic transmission fluid ("ATF"). If the ATF did indeed evaporate from the power steering system, then it would evaporate at the same or higher rate (due to higher temperatures) from the automatic transmission. I'd bet that the ATF in your automatic transmission has not evaporated at the same rate, therefore...
If the PS fluid level is low, either someone sucked the fluid out of the reservoir (ATF does make a good but messy lubricant for door hinges and is a good rust preventative) or it leaked out of the system. If you don't have red ATF dripping from your door hinges all over the ground, then it leaked.
A typical PS system is pretty simple, with a pump, rack, and hoses in between. Some early 1990's vintage Camrys had a hydraulically driven cooling fan that was powered by the PS pump but I believe that was discontinued in favor of the simpler electric cooling fan.
Look at the PS pump and see if there is ATF weeping from the hose connections or where the pulley shaft passes through the pump body. A more likely place for the PS fluid to leak, particularly if you drive on bumpy roads, is the rack ends. There are rubber accordion boots at the outer ends of the rack. Carefully peel the boots back and check to see if it is bone dry. If it is oily/greasy, then the fluid is weeping past the rack ends.
The good news is that the PS system will function normally for a long time with this condition if you remember to check the fluid once in a while.
In a closed system, for sure, and even in one that is not tightly closed, power steering fluid should not appreciably evaporate. There could be minor leaks or drips or misting that could cause you to lose a little fluid over a long period of time, and this unidentified loss is probably what he is lumping under "attrition".
The very conscientious motorist will check all his fluids, or have them checked, fairly often.
The system has a leak. Hydraulic oil (power steering fluid) does not evaporate at a rate that will be noticeable in a 24 month period.
But, by the tone/sound of the OP's comments, he is also not the guy checking fluids on a regular basis. A small seep/leak will go unnoticed for quite a while until a "technician" notices it IMHO.
This is true, I haven't been checking the fluid on a regular basis. That's now going to change.
It would appear to be the case... but if your conclusion is that the system has a leak, then why wasn't it found by the Toyota service department?
The information they gave me was that they checked for leaks twice; the morning I brought it in, and then again the following day - after the warranty company adjuster showed up. The words given to me by the service rep was that the area where they checked for leaks "was dry as a bone."
Is the Toyota dealer flat out lying to me? That wouldn't make sense since PS system leaks are fully covered by my Gold warranty; fixing a leak would be money in the dealer's pocket.
This is true, I haven't been checking the fluid on a regular basis. That's now going to change.
It would appear to be the case... but if your conclusion is that the system has a leak, then why wasn't it found by the Toyota service department?
The information they gave me was that they checked for leaks twice; the morning I brought it in, and then again the following day - after the warranty company adjuster showed up. The words given to me by the service rep was that the area where they checked for leaks "was dry as a bone."
Is the Toyota dealer flat out lying to me? That wouldn't make sense since PS system leaks are fully covered by my Gold warranty; fixing a leak would be money in the dealer's pocket.
******** I'd bet that they did check for leaks since it only takes a minute to do. One place they may have missed is is under the boot for the rack end. I wouldn't worry too much, just monitor the fluid level.
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