Synthetic Scam?

What's the outside temp. Has it dropped? Are you letting the vehicle warm up a little longer because of the weather? By your return address, I see it is Michigan. Pretty crappy weather there according to the national weather map. All those things add to increased fuel consumption.

Since most places could not afford to purchase synthetic oil in bulk (it's just not practical), if you feel you are being "ripped-off", then next time, ask to see the empty containers.

If you are THAT worried about fuel usage, you bought the WRONG kind of truck. Maybe a Vibe is more what you should have bought.

Don't you love it when people buy SUVs then complain that they get crappy mileage? I'm trying to remember but I think that I heard of people suing GM over the H2 for it's low mileage. I wonder what they were thinking when they bought it....

Note that different brands of oils may be thinner or thicker within a given viscosity grade. It is possible that this can be affecting your fuel economy, independent of whether the oils are synthetic. You can look up the viscosity in cSt at 100 degrees C for various oils on the oil companies' web sites.

There is no way in the world that changing to synthetic or changing grades is going to get anyone a 2 to 3 mpg increase in mileage. You are just fooling yourself. The most you can get is on the order of something like 0.3 % improvement. If synthetics or weight could gain you 3 mpg don't you think every car on the road would get it's EPA mileage certifications done using synthetics of low vis? Car manufacturers would be all over it.

Synthetics don't improve gas mileage much. I don't even think the manufactures even make that claim...and you know they would if it did!

a bit expensive ($21.50) and time consuming, but maybe what you're looking for

They'll send you a sample kit that you can send back to them for analysis.

I suppose you could also take the oil and smell it or burn it.

"Phillip Schmid" wrote in news:bojl7t$1fgcac$ snipped-for-privacy@ID-72906.news.uni-berlin.de:

I wasnt complaining about the mileage, this is my 3rd SUV. This is my first Suburban though, the other 2 were Tahoes. In fact this one is much larger(GVW) and gets as good as gas mileage as my previous 2. This is probably due to the smaller engine in the Suburban(3.3) than the Tahoes (3.7). I preferred the Tahoes engine over this one because they had more low end torque. When you buy an SUV you should not care a great deal about gas mileage they are all bad. I imagine the Hummer is in a league of its own, right up there with a boat(GPM)!

AZGuy wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

No this is real! I watch and set my trip odometer every fill up. I get 80 more miles per tank! The truck has a bit more pep too. If you are using the fact that the Big 3 have not jumped to synthetics because of better gas mileage as proof that synthetics do not increase your mileage then I think you are being short sighted.

Mfg Cost per vehicle? The Mfg cost per vehicle would go up.

Consumer Savings per vehicle? Service related to engine wear would go down therefore dealer service would go down. Dealers have to make money somehow! Why make a light bulb last forever mentality. If you did not know, light bulbs could last a lot longer than they currently do, manufacturers choose not too produce them this way. Existing/Pending Legislation? If the automakers are required to decrease mileage by law at some future date then maybe they would save the switch to synthetic until then? Its the what have you done for me lately approach. When they do it without having to, it would quickly be forgotten.

Oil Companies may not want to go all synthetic production. Maybe the mfg capacity is not there. Maybe the profit margins are too low. Oil companies are big and powerful.

Disposal and Environmental Harm? I do not know if there any issues with synthetic but it's different from oil. Oil has been around for years and is well known. Synthetic?

I think that this decision(synthetic vs. conventional ) would not be made by an engineer trying to improve gas mileage. This decision would made at the top, because its strategic.

I am one of those guys that keeps a gas mileage log. I was very interested in determining if synthetic oil provided a fuel economy advantage. Here are my results:

1997 Ford Expedition, 5.4L 4WD, 3.73 gears:

5W30 Havoline Convention oil - 71,095 total miles - 14.10 mpg average

5W30 Mobil 1 Oil - 63,541 total miles - 14.07 mpg average

For all practical purposes the fuel economy is exactly the same. If you think about it, this is what should happen. I live in a mild climate, so I am not getting any benefit from the superior properties of synthetic oil at really low temperatures. In my climate the viscosity of two oils is virtually the same at all temperatures. Maybe in a very cold climate, there would be a slight viscosity advantage for synthetic oil that would improve your gas mileage at the start of a trip. It is also possible if you use extended oil change intervals synthetic oil might offer an advantage. For an engine in good condition, the viscosity of the oil increases with usage. Synthetic oil increases less, so I suppose if you use longer oil change intervals synthetic oils might show a slight increase in mileage. By slight I mean 0.1% or so which the typical owner will never reliably detect. I changed the oil in my Expedition every

3000 miles or so, so the superior long life properties of synthetic oil probably never showed up.

It is not possible to figure gas mileage based on a single tank of fuel. There are too many variables to get consistent results. If you really want to know your mileage, start keeping a log and figure your mileage over five tankfuls.

Ed

Rob wrote:

alan wrote in news:bol60c$k2j$ snipped-for-privacy@news.Stanford.EDU:

Good response, it actually anserwed my question!

What to look for and at what temperature?

Ford switched to a 5W20 synthetic blend in 2001 for exactly this reason. The increase in mileage is tiny (0.6%) but Fodr needs every edge they can to meet CAFE requirements.

By a small amount, but if it allows the manufacturer to meet CAFE requirments, I am sure they will see it as a worthwhile cost.

Light buldbs that last a longer also cost a lot more and don't sell very well. Philips has been trying to sell long life buls for a while now. I never buy them.

Not even Mobil claims Mobil 1 provides improved fuel economy any more. When Mobil 1 was first introduced, Mobil did claim a fuel economy improvement, but they were comparing 10W40 conventional oil to 0W20 Mobil 1. The change in viscosity was the reason for the improved economy, not the fact that it was synthetic - although at that time there were no 0W20 conventional oils for comaprison.

Ed

"C. E. White" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mindspring.com:

Maybe I do not fully understand the argument? From what I see the gas mileage issue comes from the operating temperature not the ambient temperature. Of course alot of wear occurs in this transient state so synthetics are great here. I would think that synthetics would also coat better making cold starts easier and less prone to wear.

The argument is essentially friction and the dimensional characteristics, over time, of the parts in contact.

Maybe my mileage had nothing to do with the oil maybe they put too much pressure in the tires.

In a perfect world, synthetic may not be any better than convetional oil but I have three kids( 1 teenager 2 approaching) and a wife. I have seen a car, that has been driven without the correct amount of conventional oil. I have ignored the change oil sticker for at least 1000 miles( proper oil level still). The cost of the imperfections in the world maybe well worth the cost of the synthetic.

Also, during the black out we ran our generator 24/7 until the low oil level switch kicked in. We now use synthectic in this unit so that this will not happpen again.

So you newest theory is that your generator won't "burn" as much synth oil as it does dino oil. I don't think there is much basis for that claim either in a general sense.

I think part of that complaint was that the H2 is considered a heavy-duty truck, so they don't have to post the mileage on the sticker. But really, what do people expect from a huge SUV with a 6.0L V8..

Ummm, I have no idea. In general, synthetic oils burn at a higher temperature. Get a sample of what the mechanic would have put in your car if you had asked for mineral, what he would have put in if you asked for synthetic, and your own oil. Then compare the three using whatever means necessary.

Synthetic oil is much more resistant to burning off in high heat, and (assuming this is just an usual Home Depot-variety generator and not some huge gen-set) air-cooled engines like that do tend to run pretty hot, so it may well be true that the oil consumption will go down.