tire siping/good or bad

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Les Schwab Tires suggested to me an alternative to studded snow tires that I have them cut little lines, they call it siping, in my nearly new all seasons radials. They tell me that making these cuts in the tires will give me better gripping on snow and ice and wet pavement. But if it's that good why don't tire makers do it? When I told Les Schwab I thought they came sipped they said no. They said new tires come with water channels. $52.00 for 4 tires. Will cutting/sipping the tires give them better traction in snow, ice, wet pavement?

Reply to
David
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You're right, if it was a good idea the manufacturers would do it as well, and even offer it for increased price. But, it has no effect, and if anything may increase the wear rate on the tire. Also, I suspect that it will void tire warranties.

JazzMan

Reply to
JazzMan

Ask them the exact physics involved.

Reply to
« Paul »

FYI -

Scientific Test Prove Snow Traction Improvements Up to 200% by Saf-Tee Siping Process PHOENIX, Oct. 30 /PRNewswire/ -- New independent tests prove that consumers who have their tires professionally siped can improve traction capabilities in cold-weather-driving on basic all-season tires and high-performance tires. The process, done by the patented Saf-Tee Siping equipment, can turn a good all-season tire into "severe snow service" status, and can improve low-profile, high-performance tires enough to go from free-spinning to the level of good all-season tires.

An independent company that has run thousands of tires through snow and ice tests conducted cold-weather-driving tests on selected contemporary tires in February of 2003 in Houghton, Mich, and the results indicate tires can gain significantly improved traction after undergoing the Saf-Tee Siping procedure. The Goodyear Eagle LS, a good all-season tire, and the Michelin Pilot Sport, a comparatively new tire that is original equipment on numerous high performance sedans and coupes, were chosen for this year's tests, which compared them to the Uniroyal Tiger Paw, the industry-standard base all-season tire.

On a controlled course in Houghton, Mich., all the tires were run on a drive wheel at 5 miles per hour, and then the test vehicles drive axle was accelerated until the tires broke traction. The vehicle maintained its 5 mph pace while data from the spinning tire was accumulated. The test and base tires were tested through 10 consecutive rotations a day, for three consecutive days, on a snow-packed test site maintained at a "medium compacted" level, with the temperature at 15 or 16 degrees. All data was gathered according to American Society of Testing and Materials standards or more technically none as the ASTM F1805-00 Gradient Correction Method.

The test tires all measured 205-55, mounted on 16-inch wheels. In unsiped form, the traction with the Goodyear Eagle LS measured 101 percent of the base tire; the siped Goodyear Eagle LS measured 134 percent of the traction of the base tire. That 33 percent improvement boosted the Eagle LS into the realm of "severe snow service," awarded only to tires that achieve 110 percent of the base tire's traction, and which the siped Goodyear easily surpassed at 134 percent.

The unsiped Michelin Pilot Sport read only 35 percent of the base all-season tire's traction. This was no surprise because this type of tire would normally be a free spinning slip-slide in these driving conditions. Two siped Michelin Pilot Sports were tested, with the SAF-TEE Siping process cut on slightly different depths on each. One of them showed an improvement of 93 percent of the base all-season tire, while the other improved to 103 percent.

Past tests have proven that tires put through the brief and inexpensive process on a Saf-Tee Siping machine improved traction to accelerate, steer and stop. The concern that the slits could adversely affect wear were eliminated because heat is the major cause of high-speed or long trips, and the siped slits also ventilate the tire treads and can improve tire life. Visit sipers.com or contact Saf-Tee Siping & Grooving at 800.223.4540 to review the scientific test results and get results from other tests conducted.

For further information please contact Wes Sprunk of Saf-Tee Siping,

+1-602-437-5020, snipped-for-privacy@tsissg.com.

Source: Saf-Tee Siping

Reply to
AZGuy

Independant tests by who?

This is a company press release. It's is hardly unbiased.

Reply to
TCS

No kidding, it was like watching someone read from a teleprompter on an infomercial...

JazzMan

Reply to
JazzMan

Uh huh.. and ask a mechanic how a diode rectifier works. I'd say a lot of them don't know how it does it but they know why and the end result. I'm not saying that tire siping is a bonafided way to get better traction but there are lots of things people don't understand but use it anyhow.

-Bruce

Reply to
Bruce Chang

It's what was handy on the net. The benefits of sipping are long known to anyone familiar with the field of tire traction.

Reply to
AZGuy

-snip the Saf-Tee Siping advertisement-

-snip-

So if you are ending up with "good all-season" tires, why not just start out with a good all-season tire?

The company isn't claiming anything close to "an alternative to studded snow tires" as the OP's shop claimed. [A shame because I think that for 99% of vehicles there are more downsides to studs than up sides.]

I'd be asking for a tire that fit my driving habits and climate, and if your shop can't do that for you, move on.

Jim

Reply to
Jim Elbrecht

Another unsubstantiated claim. whoopie.

Reply to
TCS

Ever see a pair of deck shoes?

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Reply to
Mike Romain

They are right.

A lot of us folks with aggressive mud tires get them siped for winter ice traction. It does work.

It works along the line if those deck shoes. They look flat until flexed, then 100's of sharp edges come into play.

They do make specialty ice and winter tires already siped. Here is a link to one of them:

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And a quote:

Patented torque-locking zig-zag sipes provide nearly 55 meters of flexible, snow-grabbing edtes per tire, yet interlock for rigidity when high torque is applied, delivering firmer control on high-traction surfaces.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

David wrote:

Reply to
Mike Romain

Not on a car...

JazzMan

Reply to
JazzMan

Say, as opposed to the traction available with a genuine snow tire with the special tread compounds used to stay flexible at low temperatures, stay hydrophilic, perhaps even a bit of silica or glass or metal fiber to add traction that can exceed that of a traditional studded snow?

Too bad you obviously don't qualify as "anyone familiar with the field of tire traction" yourself.

Reply to
Lon Stowell

So if you are not saying it helps, why bother continuing the sentence about people not understanding?

Reply to
Lon Stowell

Deck shoes made out of the wrong rubber ain't as good as real deck shoes. And deck shoes made out of a set of Ferragamo's are a slippery joke.

Not saying siping doesn't have its place, particularly in extending the life of mud blocks, but there is more to a good snow tire than the sipes. Resiping a snow tire don't help much unless the original soft compounds are still there to be siped. Siping an all season tire and calling it a snow tire is a cruel joke.

Reply to
Lon Stowell

Good points.

Mike

Reply to
Mike Romain

Because Paul suggested that the tire guy would know the exact physics involved.

Reply to
Bruce Chang

On the contrary--the harder the rubber, the more siping helps. Siping effectively makes the tire softer by allowing small regions of the tire to move small distances independently of each other.

Andrew

Reply to
Andrew

What's snow? ;)

Powell > x-no-archive: yes

Reply to
Powell E. Barber

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