Toll Roads without Toll Booths

I am OK with that, except in this case, people who live in SE Wake County are going to get double charged to use the new road (originally planned as part of I-540) - gas tax and a toll. People who live in NE Wake County have the non-toll portion of I-540 they can use. There was a lot of local and state politics involved. Until recently North Carolina politicians took a stong position against toll roads. At least during my lifetime, NC state and county roads have always been paid for with NC gas tax revenue plus for some roads federal highway funds. NC has one of the highest gas taxes in the nation, but it never bothered me becasue we generally had decent roads that provided access to all. In recent years the gutless politicians have not been willing to adjust the gas tax to provide sufficient funds to build and maintain roads and they have been raiding the existing gas tax revenue to pay for non-road related projects. So, if you are one of the unfortunate people who live in SE Wake county (I don't), and you want to take a fast efficient route to RTP, you will be forced to pay a toll to use the road and still pay a tax on the gas you use while using the toll road. Plus, as it turns out, the state is actually using state funds (the funds they claimed not to have) to build the road.

Ed

"C. E. White" wrote in news:i4dvsf$k4l$ snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org:

Sounds to me like some politician is getting kickbacks for making a road a toll road and then still losing money because then they pay (the company that gives the kickback) money to run it. It's never going to be cheaper than the state running the road themselves. Vote for the other guys next time. Clearly these ones have no interest in your interests.

First, don't talk to stalkers like this guy moonbeam. You worsen their mental condition when you respond to them. There are ways to slap them around and make them better, but you don't seem to be the type of guy to do that. And you'll just get abuse from them. They live on it.

Now, the state pols are no different than the feds, and often worse. They are mostly owned by Chambers of Commerce and will sell their citizens out for a penny. Their is no national or local loyalty to common citizens in them. They are loyal to the Almighty Dollar only. Sometimes they appoint unelected "commissions" to sell off state assets or otherwise steal citizen money. Keeps actual citizens from voting on the issue, and if it blows up down the road they can claim "plausible deniability." As always, follow the money.

Look at the financial interests of those putting it in play. Not easy to do, because they can cover their tracks better than the Mob, and if an investigation gets close to uncovering their malfeasance they'll claim "Political smearing." They even use "clean" dummies on the commisions, whose strings are being pulled by the real movers. Plenty of "poor, honest" people willing to kiss the asses of the wealthy in order to get their egos stroked. Reps do, Dems do it. They use political polarization to throw a smokescreen while they empty the public bank. In the case of this tollway, they already have you calling it a "corporation." A state setting up a "corporation." For a "public" highway. Think about that for a while.

The best known gov "corporations" were Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac. Also known as gov sponsored enterprises. Then you got your gov owned enterprises, AIG, Citigroup and GM. What they are are "corporations" that benefit investors when they do well, but suck up taxpayer money when they fail. Socialism for investors. Another method to socialize so-called "capitalism" is happening right now with the Fed printing and providing money at zero interest to the big banks that are still "too big to fail." Paying interest for anything and getting hardly anything for savings? Thank the Fed for socializing the big banks. The biggest "capitalists" in this country are commies in drag. Anyhow, what this probably means for your toll road is taxpayers will fund it, but only a few wheeler dealers will end up owning it and collecting the tolls of those who paid for it.

It's a monopoly but will become "critical" to public safety and commerce. Might have happened, but I never saw a toll road dismantled. Which means as tolls are raised to compensate for incompetant management and the need to pay off investors, the state will kick in with more taxpayer money. Even if it appears that actual private money is initially funding it, there will be taxpayer dollars flowing in. And if it fails the taxpayer will foot the bill and the "investors" will suffer no losses. Between operating in the red and outright failure, more taxpayer money gets pumped in. Sweet deal indeed for "investors."

The more this country gets politically polarized, the more taxpayer suckers there are to rape. The pols love it. Forget about dirty plates or a lowered tailgate avoiding tolls. You'll find the cops issuing $250 tickets to anybody around the tollway for that. That'll stop that idea real quick. Like I said, follow the money. You might be surprised how many of the pols who are "looking out for your interests" are millionaires, and whose real goal is simply to increase their personal wealth. Nothing to do with "public service." Don't *want* to be negative, but facts don't lie. I'll also say that most toll roads I've used have seemed worth the toll I've paid. Because the alternatives were worse. They set it up that way of course. And there's a good argument for users paying for their roadway. But I don't think actual tolls ever fully supported any tollway. Taxpayer money of non-users alway goes into it. And nothing makes a "capitalist investor" more happy than free taxpayer money. Easiest money there is.

Thanks for the compliment.

Great, so you can provide actual persoanl infomration. That is what I am looking for.

I understand the theory, but does it really work? I understand that the transponder are likely reliable. But how about the licence plate readers? Back to my original post, say I drive my pickup on the toll road with the tailgate down. The plate is certaily not visiable from a camera mounted more than a few feet off the road. Do they have really low mounted cameras? If not, how do they keep everyone with a truck from just leaving the tailgate down? Most of the big dump trucks in the area don't have rear licence plates at all (that is another sore point). How will they track those? In Caifornia do they send bills to out of state vistors who use the bridges? If so, is there any enforcement mechanism for out of state vistors who ignore the bill?

I plan to vote against everyone I can that supported turned the southern loop of I-540 into a toll road. Of course since I only get to vote for one state representative and one state senator, I'll have limited impact. The toll road lobby was able to sneak the toll road through becasue much of the state thinks it is only going to affect one or two urban areas and that they won't have to worry about toll roads. Much of the Eastern and Western parrts of NC feel the Urban Areas (Raleigh, Greensboro, Charlotte) get more than their fair share of road money. I doubt that it is true, but I understand why people feel that way. I am worried that this is just the beginning and eventually many major roads will be converted to toll roads. Look at what is happening in Texas......

Again, are you really that dense? I don't want them to have tolls at all, aka, no company to shill for.

I gave you a means of contacting me if you really want to know my history. But I guess knowing the truth would interfere with your silly attacks.

Ed

There are no toll roads, or toll bridges either in this State.As far as I think I know anyway. cuhulin

A possible solution:

snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net:

There's one highway - going north from Toronto - that's toll here. The first memory I have of a toll road was riding down to Smugglers Notch campground when I was really young. There was two choices of roads, One a regular and the other a toll road. I remember asking my dad if we could go on the ride.

In message , C. E. White writes

Yes they can. If you're in any doubt, ask anyone who drives in London and has tried to beat the "Congestion Charge".

In the U.S. each state is a separate jurisdiction. (That's why extradition proceedings are needed to move criminal suspects between states.) To be enforced against out-of-state drivers they would need a reciprocal agreement with each of the other states.

which most of the states already have for the purpose of collecting on speeding tickets from out-of-state cars.

um, actually, it's not.

so you can't use google???

of course it freakin' works! did you not look up "ocr" like i told you? [rhetorical]

see above.

yup, at the toll booth. complete with flash lights for night time.

yup.

yes - they bring in a collection agency and will ding your credit history if you don't pay.

a shill that works for the auto industry has no influence? i find that hard to believe!

uh huh.

i read your spew all the time ed - it would be retarded to get it presented in another medium!

Of course the Constitution in Article 1, Section 10 states that "No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation," but like so many other governmental restrictions that has been whittled away over the years.

Actually I believe the best solution to the problem lies in using the toll cameras for target practice. (Using traffic signs for this purpose has been a popular pastime in parts of the country for many years. This would be an extension of that practice.)

I'll bet "We the people" didn't get to vote on whether or not they wanted tolls, did they? I suspect it's because they know their idea would have went down in flames. NULLIFY

Most private toll road contracts have a provision to prohibit public roads running next to them to be expanded or improved.

We have that kind of system on Beltway 8 in Houston. You can stop and pay the toll, or your EZ pass will record it and charge it to your credit card. If you go through the EZ pass lane and dont have one, you are photographed (from the rear). There are police who make sure you dont get far, but you CAN be mailed a ticket and you WILL pay it.

If you obscure your license plate here in any manner, it is an infraction of the law. You cant even use license plate holders that obscure the plate to any degree.

The answer is that YES, they have to power to do it,and if they have the will to enforce it, you might as well just pay up.

One note...the EZ tag transponders have charged people who were nearby but not on the expressway as such. You can try to fight it and might even win...or not.

A lot of people here feel that if you have to pay, you should be able to drive as fast as you want. Again, not true. You may get by with it and you might not. Fines for 90-95 mph on the expressway are large. I am usually the slowest guy there, driving at

In Texas, I think that this would be perceived as obstruction, and would be illegal.

I don't remember the name of that high speed expressway in Houston, it starts with a K, sort of a German name, I think. Those people were passing me like I was driving backwards! I got off of there soon as I could.The exit I took wound around by/near an old shopping center/mall. cuhulin

The old Wild West wasen't as Wild as it is nowadays. cuhulin

It has been 25 years since I lived (and drove) in Houston. Unless its changed a lot, all the expressways are like that.