Toyota Camry versus Mazda 6 verus Honda Accord

It is amazing to see how many serious comparos the new Honda Accord has won. Pratically all of them.

I like the Mazda (owned 6 of them) but it does not give the same impression of quality that the Accord has.

The only major downside of the Honda is the front-end. This is why I didn't buy a new one. Thanks god, there are two better looking Honda Accord (same platform); Acura TSX and Acura TL.

Wow, No Honda owner would sell a car with only 230k miles on it. It isn't even broken in yet.

The Accord Coupe is actually nice-looking.

LOL - No Honda owner? My sister is on her second. The current Civic is a nice car, but htere is no way it is going to make 230K miles unless she has the engine rebuilt or straps an oil drum to the roof with a drip feed to connected to the engine.

Regards,

Ed White

Maybe she should have changed the oil once or twice. Then it wouldn't burn oil.

She changes it according to the Honda recommendations - I actually change it for her. The inside of the valve cover is pristine. The oil coming out of the sump always looks good, but then it should, half of it has been replaced by the time we do an oil change. Her older Hodna was actually worse. On the other hand, the VW and Ford she owned never required oil to be added between changes and the Ford was treated much worse than the Honda (She lived elsewhere at the time, so I wasn't around to force the oil changes).

Ed

I did not say that Honda can't build an engine right. On the other hand I don't find Honda engines to be anything particularly awesome either. I have two other good friends with Hondas. One of them has to add significant amounts of oil between changes, the other doesn't, but then he changes the oil every two weeks (or at least it seems that way). My Sister likes her Honda. It is not a bad car, but it is hardly a wonder wagon either. It is a Civic 4 Door. I find it to be cramped, slow, noisy, it has a cheap looking interior, and I find the car to be terminally dull. On the other hand it gets good gas mileage and has never failed in any meaningful way (needed plug wires once). The steering, clutch, and shifter are very nice compared to most other FWD cars I've driven. But, the paint is starting to fall off the bumpers and some of the interior bits are brittle. Despite this it still serves her well. She'll probably be driving it until someone runs into it (2 of her previous 4 cars ended up totaled in accidents, she sold her first car, a Pinto to me, her VW had the transmission fail at 135,000 miles and we sold it to someone else, her first Honda was totaled in a collison with a Mustang, her Escort was totaled by a collision with a transfer truck).

Nope I don't work for any automobile company. However I am old enough to remember the orignal Accords that had to have more common problems than any car I was ever been associated with and the early Civics that were know for blown head gaskets and worn rings. More recently Honda has had trouble with porous V-6 engine blocks, rear oil seals, and valve seals. Nothing any different from other manufacturers.

And for the record, I've never been drunk on the job. I doubt if I could build a car right sober or not. It is hard, boring work.

Ed

Well Ed, you sound like a reasonable man but what you are saying makes little sense. First of all, I am not married to any particular company either but I have been doing automotive inspections for a huge number of extended warranty outfits for over fifteen years now, and have seen stuff you could not even emagine. By the way, I worked for Honda as well as for Chrysler Contract. In other words, I have no reason to like one better than other except for their respective qualities. Here is my statistical data - and you don't have to believe me if it does not match your experience or just taste. According to my database, I would inspect anywhere between one and two hondas per year and literally hundreds of chryslers. Most inspections I did for Honda Care were related to their trade-ins - chryslers, fords, gms, mitsubishis, etc. Keep in mind that EVERY SINGLE HONDA CLAIM IN THE CHICAGO AREA WENT THROUGH MY HANDS. If you really want to see what happens to chryslers, etc. - you can visit my site

- there are a few quite impressive pictures. Now about the honda defects you've mentioned. The V6 block problem was solved within two weeks after they had discovered it. The rear main seal was not the rear main seal - it actually was the balancer shaft seal, and I happen to do one of the first inspections of that failure for Honda's factory warranty. When I called the report in and suggested a quick fix, they told me that the problem had already been solved. Regarding Civic head gaskets - I've seen one that started to leak internally at 296,000 miles. It was my car, and I know its history perfectly well. It was the second malfunction I've experienced. The first one was the alternator failure at 150,000 miles. By the way, Honda uses the only Mitsubishi component, and that component (the alternator) always fails at about 150K. The same thing happened to my 98 Civic at the same mileage, and I am pissed - trust me. Other than that nothing even comes close in terms of convenience and dependability. Maybe Lexus but it is a different ball game.

Yes, the Taurus occupied two spots in Consumer Reports' list of ten least reliable cars a few years ago!

Andrew

Well this whole branch discussion got started becasue I said my Sister's Honda uses oil This is a fact. It is also a fact that her previous Honda used oil and was on the verge of rusting out when it was totaled in an accident. It is also a fact that Honda has issued a TSB covering multiple years to address porous V-6 blocks - not a handful built one week in June or something like that. The problems with the early Accords are well known (bad manual transmissions, blown head gaskets, severe body rust, fading plastics, etc). Oil consumption problems with early Civics are also well know. On the other hand, Honda has traditionally been the best company at addressing common design and manufacturing problems. I know more than one person who is a faithful Honda buyer becasue Honda stood by their product even when if failed out of warranty. Recently I have come to believe that Honda is changing this tradition. One thing that bothers me is the steps Honda has taken to restrict access to TSBs. Fortunately US laws force Honda to notify the NHTSA of TSBs. For instance, the NHTSA lists 72 TSBs for a 2002 Accord,

157 for a 2001 Accord, and 181 for a 2000 Accord. They list only 44 for a 2002 Ford Taurus. It seems like Honda may actually have something to hide. I am afraid that Honda is starting to act like Toyota, you know - the "Our cars don't have problems attitude - it must be your fault."

My sister loves her Honda. For her it is an ideal car - a refrigerator on wheels. She could care less about the oil consumption as long as the car goes. I suspect when her current Honda goes to the great junk yard in the sky, she will buy another. I even think, as long as Honda doesn't slide too far, it is a good choice for her. BTW, my Father's Honda lawnmower was great and my SO's Honda powered generator is pretty good too.

Ed

Point(s) well taken. It looks like when a good company gets into the US market, they employ traditional big corporate-type management, and these guys successfully screw up whatever they touch. Honda has been holding up longer than others, and if it goes south, I'll be desperate

- there is no adequate product on the market except some Toyota models made in Japan (4Runner, for instance) and not associated with GM and suchlike. But generally speaking, Toyota's (just like Sony's) attitude sucks. The bottom line is: we - the consumers - get screwed by corporate gang this way or the other.