What is "initial quality" as per the commercials?

Sound like a lot of advertising Jingo Bullshit which has no merit in the real world. Do you honestly have the time of day for any F****** advertising?

Someone's perception of their vehicle in the first thirty days of ownership.

mike hunt

Doc wrote:

Problems rates during the early days of ownership. I don't recall what JD Power uses, but I think it is either 3 or 6 months. Some folks call it "build" quality as it relates to the number of defects essential built into the vehicle at the factory, as compared to things that fail in service.

Matt

Unfortunately the website is down or something, so I can't give you their exact definition.

The initial quality survey is a survey of new car buyers trying to capture problems related to the actual assembly of the cars. Number of initial defects per XXX number of cars. They do other surveys on customer satisfaction, and long term reliability.

James Linn

I think 'initial quality' refers to all these vehicles you see running around these days - mostly imports - that use letters and numbers instead of a real name for their model designation. Such as MPV, RAV4, etc.. Must be a rating someone does of which one has the best quality initials.

Yeah, as in "My new car is absolutely perfect" uttered 3 days before the engine seized and the wheels fell off!

I wouldn't put much credence in those figures. In the first month or so, only very gross problems will show themselves. True, nothing lasts forever, but you need to get some wear on the vehicle, and get a feel for the way it operates, before you can comment on "initial quality." I would say that initial quality ought to be polled somewhere around 6 months of operation and 5-10k miles.

BTW, what is the design goal for a typical auto; 10 years / 100 k miles?

Ed

Approximately 9/20/03 07:43, Doc uttered for posterity:

You buy a car, you *may* be contacted by JD Powers, Maritz Marketing, etc. to participate in a survey on the things you found wrong with the car in the first 30 days. The dealer is very likely to offer to "help" you with answers to this survey, so take if from that how valuable it really is.

I don't see how they offer to help you - when I completed one, I doubt the dealer *knew* I did, though they contacted me about a complaint I mentioned in the survey itself, where I complained about the sales staff. I found it sort of patronizing that no one would help me until the sole black salesman was free, and then HE was incredibly patronizing, treating me (a 40-year old professional buying a Honda) like I was some hip-hop-crazed kid more concerned about the stereo than any other feature on the car. Emanuel

Some sales staff can be real morons. When I went with my wife to buy her last car, the sales person kept talking to me as if my wife wasn't there, even when we repeatedly told her the car was for her, and she took the test drive...

Approximately 9/21/03 03:07, Emanuel Brown uttered for posterity:

Dealers don't know that *you* will be getting a survey, however indeed dealers have been known to simply tell all buyers that if the buyer *does* receive a survey, the dealership is very willing if not eager to "help" them with all that complicated paperwork.

And people have fallen for that? Emanuel

A lot of people bought Cavaliers, too.

nate

Who knows, who cares- its a made-up term.

"Best initial quality" probably means fewest number of defects when delivered, or maybe within the first xxx weeks of ownership.

Approximately 9/22/03 11:51, Nate Nagel uttered for posterity:

And K Cars. Some even bought more than *one* K Car which pretty much answers the question.

Yup. You can be like Lloyd Parker. Buy a Mercedes 300E and then spend your days crowing on the American car forums how great the quality is.....

only to find out that the Mercedes E class is at the bottom of the long-term quality rankings....down there with Volkswagon and Kia.

So it holds together long enough for those initial quality cards to be sent out and then quickly spirals into a series of expensive repairs and annoying rattles. Woo hoo. You go, boyeee!!!

I'm curious where you get the impression that VWs are "at the bottom" of long term quality rankings. Now I don't particularly follow CR et. al. but IME if you want a car to last forever you could do a lot worse than a VW. It's the stupid *little* non-critical problems that drive you apeshit with them...

nate

Most likely due to someone failing to do the required valve adjustment at the required 3000 mile interval?

Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")

Leasing for 2-3 years takes the worry out of "long-term" reliability. Car is in warranty for the entire time.

Nope, it was a GTI 16V (hydraulic lifters) - I've actually got the tools and shims to do the adjustment on my solid lifter cars. ISTR the service interval being quite a bit longer than 3K miles though...

nate