Thank you captain obvious.
The culture in china is entirely different. They don't know and/or just don't care for the most part.
No. I want to say: A) what they are and why it's better. goose, gander, all that sort of thing.
Read your own words back to yourself.
You know that exactly how? You cut up rotors and examine the microstructure?
Well no, but I did that once back in a different life. Determining whether something is made of gray iron is pretty simple. Hit it with something hard (like a screw driver handle) if it goes thud its gray iron. If it rings (like a bell) it is not. The vibration damping properties of gray iron is quite obvious.
-jim
No way to be sure but I suspect that in many cases the only difference between the $19 rotor and the $48 rotor is the box they come in and the length of the warranty.
Uh huh... I'm sure you can do all this testing in a parts store or over the internet while you're trying to determine if you should buy the $19 rotor, the $49 rotor, or the $99 rotor.
Ray
Most of the time you don't care. Tap it on the parts counter and see if it goes clang or it goes thunk. That tells you most of what you want to know. Look at the surface. Does it look nice and clean or does it look like the Three Stooges got their hands on a turret lathe?
--scott
Right. For all you know they are all identical and the only difference is the box and the price and they all could be from the same foundry in Kansas.
-jim
I don't even do that - I just buy the cheap stuff usually unless I NEED it for heavy duty/hi perf type application. For those, I go with brand name parts only, and only brand names that I trust.
an example -> after bending/breaking two balljoints on my dirt track camaro, I only use Moog balljoints.
Ray
So thunk is the gray iron and clang isn't. Which is good and which is bad?
i thought i'd follow up and let y'all know what the eventual outcome of my rotor post, since the parts arrived today:
if nothing else, i'm impressed with the packaging of the Monroe pads. inside the sturdy box, the pads are shrink-wrapped to a cardboard insert. the outside of the box has, "Printed in Canada" and "Made in Canada".
the Wagner rotors came in the typical square box. the "Wagner Brake Products" sticker on the outside of the box claims, "Printed in China" and "Made in China".
the rotor, wrapped in a plastic cover, looks EXACTLY like the $19 rotors i bought for the '90 Trooper a few months ago. the casting and machining looks of high quality, the fins are symmetrical and very clean, with no casting side-effects in the fins. there are no stampings anywhere on the rotors.
when i stand the rotor on its edge on a formica surface and tap the inner ring, the result is a "RING" that lasts for a few seconds.
although i'll (we'll) never know the difference in metal content between this rotor and the Trooper's rotor, i will say the "workmanship" looks the same.
regards, michael
i thought i'd follow up and let y'all know what the eventual outcome of my rotor post, since the parts arrived today:
if nothing else, i'm impressed with the packaging of the Monroe pads. inside the sturdy box, the pads are shrink-wrapped to a cardboard insert. the outside of the box has, "Printed in Canada" and "Made in Canada".
the Wagner rotors came in the typical square box. the "Wagner Brake Products" sticker on the outside of the box claims, "Printed in China" and "Made in China".
the rotor, wrapped in a plastic cover, looks EXACTLY like the $19 rotors i bought for the '90 Trooper a few months ago. the casting and machining looks of high quality, the fins are symmetrical and very clean, with no casting side-effects in the fins. there are no stampings anywhere on the rotors.
when i stand the rotor on its edge on a formica surface and tap the inner ring, the result is a "RING" that lasts for a few seconds.
although i'll (we'll) never know the difference in metal content between this rotor and the Trooper's rotor, i will say the "workmanship" looks the same.
regards, michael
So, what is the bottom line here? Is there actually little or no difference in all these parts? Brembo rotors ar available for my car for $43 apiece. Is that a waste of money? It seems like the whole thing is quite a crapshoot, considering the very high importance of properly operating brakes.
mg
On Jun 22, 11:37 am, "MG" wrote: [snipped]
i see Brembo rotors for my Z28 at tirerack.com for $43 USD, but who's to say that Brembo doesnt farm out manufacturing to their close neighbor, China?
i mean, the Wagner's i bought have Made in China stamped on the "Wagner" stickers on the box.
regards, michael
Wagner, Bendix, Raybestos all make solid brake products, but Brembo positions itself as a higher-quality supplier. A quick search shows nothing specific on their website about place of manufacture. They do claim tighter tolerances. ISO 9001, "special" cast iron, and various other manufacturing quality measures. So are you guaranteed getting a better product from them? It's an interesting question. It would be even more interesting if we were talking about parts that cost a lot of money. Rotors, at least, are relatively inexpensive.
mg
Reminds me of Tommy Boy
Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted, why do they put a guarantee on a box? Hmm, very interesting. Ted: I'm listening.
Tommy: Here's how I see it. A guy puts a guarantee on the box 'cause he wants you to fell all warm and toasty inside. Ted: Yeah, makes a man feel good.
Tommy: 'Course it does. Ya think if you leave that box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter. Ted: What's your point?
Tommy: The point is, how do you know the Guarantee Fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy, but we're not buying it. Next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser and your daughter's knocked up, I seen it a hundred times. Ted: But why do they put a guarantee on the box then?
Tommy: Because they know all they solda ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is. Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for right now, for your sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality item from me. Ted: Hmm. Okay, I'll buy from you. Tom my: Well I... What?
Many of the chain stores sell the same quality parts with different prices hoping you will feel better about your purchase. Ask to see some of the rotors and see if you can tell the difference in a $20 and $50 piece. Probly not. Happens a lot on brake pads.
Italy and China are no where near each other.
And the brembo rotors I use are not made in china. I do not remember specifically however, but if it wasn't Italy it was some other first world nation. I should replace the rears in a few months or whenever the pads get worn down, those will stock replacements so I'll find out for that grade as well.
This was a serious question. I'm not a metallurgist and I don't play one on TV.
It may not matter. You may not have a choice when you are sitting at the parts counter. The properties have already been discussed in the thread. Gray iron is not as strong as ductile iron, which is generally not as strong as steel. Other than strength Gray iron makes an excellent rotor and it's biggest plus is it is very good for dampening vibration.
-jim
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