Where do we get dealer's true cost (invoice?) for a Honda Accord or CRV?

Rod Speed knows mindless rather well- he lives and breathes it every day.

"ORDER NOW Avoid Hassles & Save Money Only $200 ($175 for CHECKBOOK Subscribers)"

"ORDER NOW Avoid Hassles & Save Money Only $200 ($175 for CHECKBOOK Subscribers)"

So then what????

After you do that are you supposed to go to rec.autos.tech and ask:

"Where can I get the dealer's true cost for a Honda Accord or CRV?"

They get about 200 bucks and they don't actually have to do much. It's a business I wish I had thought of years ago!

All they do is contact five dealers around you send you two things:

1. Five one-page legal contracts for price over dealer cost
2. A legal definition of dealer cost (itemized by available options)

This definition of dealer cost includeds all available options so, you can basically "pick your car" off the lot or you can order your car from the factory - and you refer to item 2 plus item 1 for the total cost.

Now, you are "supposed" to go to the lowest-price dealer ... but ... and this is a big but ... you don't have to do that: a. You can cheat and go to any dealer b. You can STILL bargain if you like.

In fact, I've even given my quote to a friend who wanted a similar car, and she used my 150-dollar quote (it was less in the olden days) to get her similar car with her desired options for $400 over dealer cost.

Two of my friends have done this, and all found that the lowest-price dealer was at the very limit of the legal radius that checkbook.org quoted

- but, all three of us (one was me) simply went to the CLOSEST dealer and got our car in five minutes (as you noted, if you trade-in and need financing, then you get back into the miserable stage of haggling where the fleet manager sends you BACK to the miserable sales department and your inquisition begins).

I've bought many cars the old-fashioned way, and just one this new-fashioned way, but, I'll never go back to the old I-have-to-check-with-my-manager torture ever again!

More in the next post because this is looooong! Donna Ohl

There are still pitfalls in this checkbook.org method though.

Realize there are THREE departments (at least at the foreign car chain that I bought mine from) that you deal with when you purchase a car this method.

I. There is the cunning sales department II. There is the helpful customer satisfaction lady III. There is the busy no-nonsense fleet manager

There are many sales people, and they work every day of the week, mostly dealing with tire kickers, and they're like sharks when they sense a serious buyer.

But there's generally only a single customer satisfaction lady, and she works 9-5 M-F just like the always-on-the-phone fleet manager does.

STEP 1: Select the car you want (including options): You leave your checkbook at home (repeat: Checkbook at home!) whenever you talk to the sales people. Visit as many sales people as you like, drive as many cars as you like, ask as many questions as you like, when dealing with sales people.

STEP 2: Find where that car exists (desired color and options): This step is not needed if you're ordering from the factory, but, in my case, the Japanese factory was reputed to take MONTHS before the car would be here so I was forced to choose a car off a lot. So, say (as it was in my case), say that the closest dealer doesn't have the car you want, but some other dealer does have the car you want, and the best price was from the farthest dealer. You find out from the closest dealer WHERE the car is (closest to you), and then you go to THAT dealer to get the car (at the price of the LOWEST dealer).

STEP 3: Buy the car. This is as easy as arriving on a M-F 9-5 and just handing the fleet manager who works in a dingy office out in back of the dealership your contract for the lowest cost (he'll be sitting at a scratched-up table and a dirty telephone with papers strewn all over the place ... very UNLIKE the sales department shine and polish).

So, in summary, you have to turn their system on them: a. Use the sales department to CHOOSE your car (and options) b. Use the customer satisfaction department to FIND your car c. Use the fleet manager to BUY your car

Take as long as you want with step (a). The other two steps take only a few minutes.

Again, nothing stops you from bargaining down from your $400-over-cost price but be prepared for an abrupt fleet manager as he doesn't want to do anything but move cars off the lot in as little time as possible. You'll never see him again so I'd say it's probably worth asking the question (I didn't bargain further since I had mine $200 UNDER dealer cost ... which happens because of the aforementioned dealer kickbacks and incentives).

Now, that brings the problem of how accurate the stated dealer cost is.

I looked in KBB and didn't see the dealer cost ... can someone show it to me for a 2010 Honda Accord, for example?

Tegger wrote

Yep, mindless.

Irrelevant to how mindless that last para of yours is.

You lard arse is your problem.

Not if you have enough of a clue to talk to the manager directly.

Like hell it is.

Or the dealership is in a desperate financial situation or you can find one that is.

It cant do if you tell them that you are going to walk right now and start doing that.

You should have just made it clear that you were going to walk, like knock on the door where you could see him watching TV and make it clear that you knew he was watching TV.

price, anyway.

You would have if your had just walked into the room where you knew he was watching TV.

And if you know what they paid for the car, you are in a much better position to know what price they wont go below, unless they are about to go bust if they dont get your sale, and that is a rare situation.

"D. Ohl" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@tioat.net:

In the "new car" box, select make and model and select Honda and Accord from the lists. Enter your zip code. Click "pricing" next to the picture of the 2010 Accord. Click on the trim level you want from the list. You will get the list and invoice prices.

That about sums it up.

--Vic

1950 Dodge car I bought for $75.00 in Saint Louis in 1963.The dealer said somebody else was going to pay $95.00 for the car. I told him, Let him have the car then.The dealer said, OK, you can have it for $75.00

I never have bought a new vehicle before, except for a new bicycle I bought in the early 1950s. cuhulin

Vic Smith wrote

Nope.

The other obvious possibility is that the manager has decided that you can be conned.

Doesnt mean that is true.

Conned or upsold....

What happens in the business office is the saleperson brings the quote in and the Sales/Business Manager is calculating how much profit is in the sale, before they approve the deal. Note that if your car is in high demand, he will have a minimum profit already in his head. On the other hand, if your car has been on the lot for 11 months, its a dog to him and he just wants it gone, so he can order another car that will turn over faster. He may even sell it at a loss.

What the business manager knows is the incentive packages/rebates from the manufacturer. In many cases they could sell you some vehicles at invoice cost and make a good profit from these rebates, in other cases there are no rebates (high demand cars).

If the business manager thinks the profit is too low, they will strong arm you into buying things like paint protector, rust proofing etc. They will try to sell you these in any case, but in some cases, they push harder. These are the most profitable items in the dealership, with the highest markups, so if you really want them, bargain hard. These items may have a margin of 50% or more. They usually count on you being anxious or tired by this point.

Unless you are in desparate need of a car (never tell a salesperson that), use your power to walk. It takes a sales manager only a minute or two to calculate the profit in a deal. If they are deliberately making you wait, walk, and don't go back.

The profit margins on small cars are also small, not much room to manouvre. The more expensive cars are more profitable on a percentage basis. Dealer installable add ons also add to the dealer's profit. Many dealers make most of their profit from service, so if you have been a loyal service customer, don't forget to mention that.

James

James wrote

What I said in a lot more words.

And the other obvious variable is what those spivs and con men decide might be possible with a particular potential buyer too.

Not even possible to do that with a buyer with a clue.

So Tegger's original line is just plain wrong, as I said.

This can't be correct because the "pricing" to the dealership has nothing to do with the zip code. The only thing the zip code affects is the destination charges which are independent of the dealer invoice!

"Mina O." wrote in news:km1v488bhs9x $. snipped-for-privacy@apple.com:

Agreed, it doesn't affect pricing. The zip code is merely for their marketing purposes to connect you to dealers in your area.

True.

The Kelly Blue Book is a decent starting point for dealer cost, but don't assume anything.

KBB will tell you what the dealer list is, not the invoice price, nor any other incentives. The manufacturer has preferential pricing based on the volume a dealer sells, and thats The manufacturer will also offer incentives (rebates, discounts) that have time limits. The manufacturer may look at their sales rate and offer a lower than list price. Its complicated. Trust me I know from my work that often dealers have a hard time doing a calculation of what the profit is on a vehicle, given all the factors.

The other thing to look out for are admin fees - these are totally at the discretion of the dealer. Supposedly they are the fees to do the paperwork and register the vehicle. Some dealers (not many) charge zero, other may charge hundreds of dollars.

James

These are sometimes negotiable - it never hurts to ask and, depending on how bad the salesman is trying to meet his quota, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Marsha

As long as you negotiate the "drive out" or "bottom line" price (the amount that you are going to write on your check), you don't care about the various fees and taxes and things. As far as you are concerned its all included.

I have yet to encounter a dealer that will not negotiate to a bottom line price. Just make sure you've done your homework before you get there so you know what the answer needs to be.