wire crimping

I have one, but I got it at a Pep Boys which you probably don't have in the UK.

My question is now, where do I get the TERMINALS to do the factory style crimps? You know, the ones that have two tabs that fold over the wire and two more that fold over the insulation to provide a strain relief should someone yank on the assembly?

nate

AMP makes the crimper. Vantex makes the terminals.

If you want better connections than factory, at less cost, just get yourself a soldering iron and some shrink wrap. Crimped connections are for quick, not quality. They are never as good as a well soldered join.

I don't use the TERMINALS, they're hard to find. I just twist the wires together and crimp and shrink tube. Another words, I strip two wires, tie them together much like a cross "+ " and then twist some more into a shape like this "~~" then with the special crimp tool I got from the 1970s, I crimp. It works great. I'm the only one in the universe who does it this way - unless someone here admits doing it too.

It works reliably and won't pull out. Those crimp-tubes versions where you slide wires into opposing ends are a little too fat and with many connections, they take up space in tight areas.

BTW, is Vantex mispelled? Couldn't find it in googles, where do they sell them at?

A properly crimped gas-tight connection with a good seal on the insulation is far more likely to be reliable than a soldered one.

Fewer things to go wrong even when the solder connection is perfectly done [and it does nothing to seal the insulation] but even worse when you consider that fewer than 1% of electronics techs actually know how to produce a good solder connection, prep the surfaces, and clean the connection afterwards.

Hi, Fewer than 1%? What are you talking about? If one can't solder properly, s/he does not even have basic qualification to be a tech. Tony

I said better than factory. Certainly better than that which is performed by the average amateur crimper.

I mentioned shrink wrap.

I think the percentage is higher than that, but I will admit that if the connection is to be made on braided copper wire that has oxidized, the operation is difficult. I have however encountered far too many crummy factory crimped connections to trust them much. Yes they are used on aeroplanes, but nobody drives aeroplanes on salt-laden roads.

I'll stand by the 1% number. Having had to deal with the typical tech's soldering skills more times than I care to remember. Actually the 1% figure is optimistic.

If one cannot solder properly one does not qualify as electronics tech. Call them what you want.

On the other hand I do agee that crimp terminals should not be soldered. Proper crimping produces a gas tight cold weld junction that cannot be beat. This cannot be accomplished using pliers or vice grips. Sadly I have seen too many so called techs and mech do just that that.

Soldering crimp terminals has its disadvantages even when the junction itself is good. Solder can wick up under the insulation, past the strain relief. If the wire flexes there it will eventually break causing intermittent condition.

The solder flux condenses on colder surroundings including the terminal. If it is not cleaned the coating of flux can impair proper contact especially if it is for a low level signal.

Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see: Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs

Ontario

I can't disagree with that, but not that many have been thru as rigorous a training as a NASA soldering QA school....before the shuttle era.

Yeah, even the cheap crimp tools are better if one picks the correct set of crimping faces for each size. Better are the big AMP tools that ratchet, pretty much preventing a bad crimp if the correct die is used. Not as good as a big manufacturing crimp machine that strips, cleans, crimps all in one operation but those can be a tad difficult to get under the hood.

Pretty difficult to get a good wicking solder joint anyway unless the wire is new without precleaning and sometimes not even then.

If the flux *can* condense between the signal carrying portions, by definition the tech does not know how to solder properly. It is physically impossible for the flux to do so in a proper connection where the solder has flowed and wetted properly. Then the excess flux needs to be removed from the areas *outside* the mechanically solid and properly soldered joint...as there never should be any flux in the joint itself if done properly.

So... How do they keep the runways clear in Minneapolis? when I connected there a couple of days ago it sure looked like the taxiways and runways were being treated with roadsalt.

Soldering: Pros: Reliable.

Con: Solder lead is toxic. Solder fumes are dangerous. Difficult to master. Gets yourself burned if not careful.

Crimping: Pros: Fast. Non-toxic. Reliable, at least not exposed to salts and stuffs. No electricity, propane or energy source required. Reliable tool, last 30 years or more. No long or short term injury.

Con: Can't buy them TERMINALS. They used them on my Honda interiors only. I have no problems with them.

John, Did you mean shrink tubes instead of shrink wrap? Tibur

Yes - ventilation is critical. But here's the thing - if you solder it correctly it will not come apart. Too many people just drip solder onto a joint when the correct way to solder is to put the two items being soldered together and heat them with the appropriate wattage soldering iron. Then apply the solder to the joint, not the soldering iron tip.

On stranded conductors you'll now it's hot enough when the solder flows down through the wire.

One can always modify, modify, modify. I've crimped a number of cables for things like amateur radio gear, and public safety radio gear without any issues.

Oh shrink tubes are the pits.

But if the wire is old, cleaning it is a bitch, and you MUST NOT use acid core solder.

Remember guys, in the midst of all this argy-bargy, the original post was about duplicating factory crimps. I can't claim this is true in general, but a lot of factory crimps do not involve anything like a 'gas tight seal' or even an insulating sleeve. They have two wussy little tabs that invite brine from the environment to invade by capillary action. Yes a good dose of silicone grease is the cure for that. Have YOU pulled the plastic covers off the back of your firewall plugs and filled them with silicone grease?

Con: the average amateur doesn't get the right size terminal for the wire he's terminating a good percentage of the time, and that's crucial.

So have I, but I like to solder them if I have the time, especially if the connection is either exposed to road salt or subject to stress.

Shrink tube. I never have been able to make shrink wrap get along with silicone grease.

Properly applied with a heat gun the stuff works.

Try here for terminals:

I have gotten lots of the style you are talking about.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Yeah, except that the REAL proper way to solder is that you create a good mechanical joint before you add any solder. The solder must never form any part of the mechanical support. Two reasons: one is that lead/tin solder has horrid mechanical properties. The more important one is that it is impossible to avoid a cold solder joint if you use the solder as a mechanical support in any way unless you totally immobilise the joint and leave it that way until it cools well below the solder meltpoint.

And on a car wire, the odds of getting a good clean surface to solder on without using an acid based precleaner [and then it must be removed] or a heavily fluxed acid style solder are essentially slim and none. Worse you really shouldn't use an acid flux solder on electronics, but none of the resin fluxes are good enough to clean the surfaces properly during the soldering itself.

Which it needs to coat thoroughly and evenly.

Got any big electronics parts jobbers? May be worth while bypassing the factory connector in order to get a good joint?

r

Electronic rubber paint works even better than shrink tube, granted it does make pulling the pieces apart in the future a bit of a PITA, but works as nicely as dielectric grease.

I've had some luck with the heat shrink rubber wrap that self seals with a heat gun, but it still doesn't do the nice tight seal of silicon grease or insulating rubber paint.

Also helps with mechanicals, supporting the wire, particularly if you soldered over the crimp.

I prefer to solder the wires first or 'tin' them, then do a side by side lay with a little extra solder on the tip to transfer the heat and coat the cooled off joint with dielectric grease, then slide some heat shrink tube over the whole thing and heat.

I did a frame up build on my CJ7 with all beefed up by me wiring with new pigtails soldered on everywhere and I used dielectric grease and heatshrink all over the place. Worked great.

I can run in 42" of standing water without the vehicle having issues. I have issues, I get a wet butt, but....

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Best to provide a mechanical bond, either by twisting the tinned wires or untinned. I usually do the tinned wires as well, as I usually get a flatter joint--less likely to abrade away the coating or other things near it...plus less likely to poke a damn fluxed wire into my finger.

Your method is pretty common [presuming a good mech bond as well], but works a bit more reliably if you use just a tad of new solder *OR* a bit of liquid flux as you make the joint. I use liquid flux plus Multicore solder that has a coupla percent copper in it. Got it from an old [now defunct] company where I was the manager of sustaining and manufacturing engineering. Too bad I didn't buy any of their Amp machines for crimping.

Yeah, I only use the rubber crap for stuff that gets really really soggy all the time, like the fuel pump connects on the older Porsche.

Drive in warmer water dude, and do it fast...just like your own Jacuzzi.