1993 Tercel getting too hot

Hey guys,

Over the last few months, the temperature in my tercel has slowly been climbing.. If I get into it and it's cold, it only takes about 10-15 minutes of any type of driving to get it up to just a smidge under the red area.. It never goes into the red area, but it worries me that it's getting this hot.. On one occassion I noticed that the radiator was full, but the overflow was dry.. I put a bunch of water into the overflow, and it was fine for a while.. but in a day or two it's back up to it's old tricks.

I'm going to have some one on one time with my car this weekend.. Can anyone suggest what steps I should take to figure out what the cause is, and in what order I should do them?

If it's the head gasket, I'm going to say goodbye to this puppy and get something else.

Thanks, Duane

Reply to
Duane
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Adding straight water to the overflow bottle dilutes the coolant mix and reduces the effectiveness of the coolant. Always add either a 50-50 mix of coolant and water or use the pre-mixed stuff to top off the overflow bottle.

Several things you can check:

You can purchase an inexpensive anti-freeze tester at your auto parts store. While you are looking at the coolant, it should be translucent, not muddy/rusty colored. If it is muddy/rusty colored, you need to have the cooling system flushed or you can purchase one of the T-flush kits and do it yourself.

If you have oil in the coolant or the engine oil has a milkshake appearance, then the head gasket is probably bad.

As the engine is heating up, listen or check to see if the electric cooling fan behind the radiator is coming on. If it is not, with the engine off, disconnect the connector to the fan and apply 12 volts and ground to the fan connector if it works. If the fan works, then the coolant temp sensor and related wiring is suspect. If the fan does not work, then a new fan is in order.

If the radiator cap is the original one, think about a replacement because they do wear out and if they don't hold pressure, the engine will run a little hot.

With the engine cold, remove the radiator cap, insert a thermometer, and see what temp the thermostat opens. If it is opening above 190 degrees Fahrenheit, the thermostat needs replacement.

Check to make sure the fins in the radiator are clear.

Reply to
Ray O

It doesn't worry you enough that it is getting to the red area if you continue to drive the car with it getting to the red area.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and hope the easiest problem is the actual problem, you need a new thermostat. If the hardest problem is the actual problem, then you need a head gasket.

Reply to
J Strickland

So, I went for another drive a while ago down to the store... Took about 10 minutes worth of driving to get it to about 75% of the meter (where 85% is where red starts).. Let it cool down a bit and checked it out .. I couldn't see any liquid in the radiator when I opened the cover.. So, I added a 50/50 water/coolent mix to it untiul it seemed full.. I also replaced the rad cap with a new one at this point.. Drove it back to where I started .. The temperature didn't get as high, but it was still climbing when I shut it off.. I opened the hood when I got there, and didn't see any obvious liquid leaks anywhere.. However the fan attached to the radiator wasn't blowing (I'm not sure if it normall does or not), and I didn't hear anything being pumped.. Since I don't see any obvious leaks, I'm not really sure where the water is going.. Is it just boiling off?

Thanks, Duane

Reply to
Duane

If the coolant is not leaking and the coolant level is going down, that is a sign of a head gasket leak. Another possibility is that the coolant level just got low over time and you have not kept up with it and so it is taking a lot to get the radiator topped off.

Here's what you should do:

With the engine cold, fill the radiator to the bottom of the radiator neck and fill the overflow bottle to the full mark. Start the engine, turn the heater to the max hot temp and let the engine run until the coolant temperature is about halfway up the temp gauge, topping off the radiator little by little as necessary. Once the temp gauge gets about half way up the gauge, and you coolant level in the radiator has stabilized, put the radiator cap back on. Your radiator and overflow bottle should now be full. If you need to add more coolant in the future, add it to the overflow bottle as the level goes down.

If the engine is running and the temp gauge is near the red mark, the radiator cooling fan should be running. If it is not running, that is one of the causes of running hot. Get it fixed.

Reply to
Ray O

"Ray O" wrote in news:6c3e2$42d6d7fd$44a4a10d$ snipped-for-privacy@msgid.meganewsservers.com:

My experience is that the mixture starts expanding and spilling over the filler neck onto the driveway after about three minutes of running.

Reply to
TeGGeR®

Did another test when I got home.. I took off the rad cap, put a thermometer in, and started the car..

20-150C - nothing happened 160-170C - water moved slightly, but nothing major 170-180C - another small shift in the water, no real fluid movement 200C-210 nothing, so I gave up and shut the car off...

During this whole test the water hardly moved (I would have thought that when the thermostat opened the water would noticably move or start to flow).. The fan attached to the radiator never moved during this whole test..

Reply to
Duane

"Duane" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

Have you tried disconnecting the fan power connector to see what happens? Toyotas are set up so that disconnection turns the fan on all the time.

Reply to
TeGGeR®

Hmm.. not sure if I understand.. Are there two connections to the fan? Because if I remove the power, doesnt' that basically guarantee it doesn't work? :P

Reply to
Duane

Oh, and those temperatures are all in F, not C.. Just a quick question -- what should I notice when the thermostat opens?

Also, at around 210F, I notice bubbles coming out of the filler neck.. It only starts at around 200F, so I imagine it's just some of the coolant starting to boil (because the cap isn't on).. It doesn't bubble at all in the first 4-5 minutes of running, so am I right in thinking it's not the head gasket?

Reply to
Duane

Good point! I should have included directions to pt the cap on when the mixture starts expanding! Thanks TeGGeR!

Reply to
Ray O

On most cars, you can see the coolant flowing when the thermostat opens.

I suspect that the car has 2 or 3 problems - the thermostat is not opening, the fan is not working properly, and your coolant is diluted too much.

Reply to
Ray O

If the water does not appear oily and the oil doesn't look like a gray milk shake, and you are not getting exhaust gases in the coolant, then the head gasket is probably OK.

Reply to
Ray O

"Duane" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Why don't you try it?

Reply to
TeGGeR®

Our collective guess is that you have a problem with either a cracked head, or a blown head gasket.

Typically, a blown head gasket will feed coolant into the oil, and you see this as milky fluid on the dip stick if the stick is pulled while the motor is running. A cracked head, on the other hand, can simply feed the coolant into the intake or exhaust tract where the liquid is converted to vapor that you can't see, but the Smog Sniffer can detect. Either of these maladies will result in the coolant disapperaring from the radiator. If the radiator is filled, and you leave the cap off and allow the engine to come up to normal temp, the thermostat will open and the coolant will circulate. If there is a blown head gasket, you should see air bubbles going past the opening where the cap belongs. Be advised, you might not see these bubbles, but if you do, the cause is most likely the head gasket.

Reply to
J Strickland

I agree with everything that Ray said, but I have a caveat to add.

Since you have allowed the motor to run hot, you _might_ have cracked the head, and this can allow coolant to enter the intake or exhaust tracts, in which case you will suffer coolant loss. Unfortunately, a cracked head and a blown head gasket take the same amount of investigative work -- pulling the head and looking -- but the cracked head is more costly because the head must be repaired if possible or replaced, the more likely of these two. In any case, the head gasket gets replaced, so the labor costs arfe essentially the same, with the head swap possibly being a bit more expensive because of the labor to move some stuff from one head to the other.

Follow Ray's advice to see if you have merely allowed the coolant to run low, and if filling the system solves the problem, then don't let it run low any more. If it solves the problem, but you have to continually add coolant, then you could be facing a blown gasket or cracked head. (Where "continually" means everytime you get gas. If you have to add some once every six months, then that's generally considered to be OK.)

Reply to
J Strickland

I don't know that your test is a viable one, but if it is, it says the tstat is not opening.

Reply to
J Strickland

I'm not convinced that the OP has a cracked head or blown head gasket. BTW, another symptom of a head problem is white smoke or steak coming from the exhaust when the engine is running hot. That vintage Tercel was not known for head problems.

I don't think a smog sniffer will detect coolant in the exhaust but it will detect exhaust in the coolant. You can use a smog sniffer or an electronic AC leak detector in the neck of the radiator to see if there is exhaust gas in there.

If the OP is using water in the radiator instead of coolant, the engine will run hot and the radiator cap will vent, resulting in dropping levels. Also, the OP replaced the cap, which, if it was original, was due for replacement. A faulty cap can also result in loss of coolant.

I would rule out the basics and more obvious problems before suggesting that the head gasket is bad, especially if there are no other symptoms of head gasket problems.

Reply to
Ray O

Shouldn't the fan have started by then too? (210 deg)

Reply to
Gord Beaman

It seems like it should have started at least once by then.

Reply to
J Strickland

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