When it's cold, I'm starting to get some contact problems with turning the engine over. I have to do it a few times to get the starter motor going. Solenoid?
I think the mechanic that I asked about it, may be trying to blow smoke up my skirt because I'm a woman, saying it's the starter motor that "has a flat spot on the armature" ( yeah right ), and could cost $600! But doesn't it sound like a little old starter solenoid contact or something, which could cost a lot less?
We had a similar issue on a '97 DX, but it intermittently failed to start when warm outside. Dealer replaced the solenoid and it has been fine since then.
"Angela Marsh" wrote in news: Xns98A251D6D9CFBVoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...
It is possible that the contacts on the starter solenoid are worn and need replacement. If inspection of the solenoid shows worn or damaged contact, the contacts are available as replacement parts (at least in the U.S.). If you cannot get replacement contacts, then you may have to replace the starter solenoid or entire starter.
A flat spot on the armature is a possibility but not a common problem on Toyota starters.
Some ideas here....
This mostly does it when cold, and when it's warmed up, it starts right up.
It makes no sense to me, unless the car's been hit or something.
What doesn't make sense? The solenoid or the armature?
That an armature could suddenly develop a "flat spot".
It seems pretty obvious that it's a solenoid contact.
Armatures generally do not suddenly develop flat spots, but they can wear unevenly over time. The first time the armature loses contact and the starter does not work, it will seem like a sudden appearance of a problem.
In Toyotas, a bad solenoid contact is the most common cause of the condition you are describing, but it is not the only possible cause.
In other cars, a bad starter is a more common cause of that condition, which is probably why your mechanic came up with that diagnosis.
One of the things that makes Toyotas easy to work on is that they are built very consistently and have few one-of-a kind problems. The downside to that consistency is that if there is a weak spot in the design, assembly process, or material, almost every vehicle will eventually develop the same problem.
He's at Midas. I haven't ever gone to them for repairs and just started going to them for an oil change recently, but if I recall, they're the kind of place that likes to replace the whole brake system instead of just what needs it. Maybe they're the same with the starter motor. Hey, they can fool a woman and charge $600 for the whole thing, right?
This is THE most reliable car we've ever owned, so far anyway. It has
139,000 miles on it.
Midas is not high on my list of recommended repair facilities, even for mufflers. ;-)
Wow...that's NOTHING! It's good for another 100,000 with proper care.
Take the car to a place that does electrical work as their main business, and have them rebuild the starter. You can get one from Toyota for $2-400, but replacing the contacts is fairly easy and should be
How come?
I sure can't afford Toyota themselves.
I have seen the quality of their muffler installations and was not impressed by the quality of the workmanship or the quality of the materials used.
If I were looking for an independent shop, I would look for one that employs technicians that are certified by the National Institute for Automotive Service Excellence, preferably ASE certified Master Technicians. While ASE certifications are no guarantee of competence, IMO, passing the ASE certification tests does tend to weed out incompetent technicians. I would also look for a shop that is AAA approved. A combination of AAA and ASE certifications tends to weed out fly-by-night operations, and my experience with AAA arbitration is that they are fair and try to make their certifications worthwhile.
Midas, Sears Auto Centers, Goodyear Auto Centers, Jiffy Lube, all the big chain repair operations have one thing in common - Corporate ownership and lots of micro-management from above.
Known fact: Jiffy Lube tries to lure you in with a $19.99 or $24.99 Oil Change Special - but Corporate wants them to push the hard-sell, the add-on sale, and their is a stated goal to get an average of $60 out of each ticket, on each visit. (On camera testimony from a "Former Manager" with his identity protected, see KCBS series below.)
And all these big companies are doing it - they have their service tickets and billing computerized, and they track every employee as they make those sales - with salary bonuses for those who produce, and eventual dismissal for those who don't.
With that kind of pressure to sell or be fired, fraud is rampant - KCBS Channel 2 News in Los Angeles just did a big hidden-camera sting where they were sold those add-ons - radiator flushes and transmission flushes - that were never performed. They had five people sold a transmission flush while they were there, and the sole flush machine they had on the premises never moved from it's display spot out front.
In California, it's prosecutable fraud if they "Oversell" unneeded service or repairs through fraud (the old "Squirt oil on the shocks and say they're leaking" trick) coercion fear or misrepresentation, and another crime if they never perform the work.
The CA Bureau of Automotive Repair has inspectors who run stings and make arrests. Sears has been busted numerous times, and once they were caught doing the same things at so many locations at once the BAR was about to yank all their auto repair shop permits statewide...
Midas may have "Advertised Specials" but once they have the car up on the rack I can guarantee they are going to find lots of ways to bump that bill up. They have to, their job depends on it...
The Toyota Dealer Mechanics are operating under a different edict that also inflates the bill: Once they do a repair the work has to be guaranteed - so they can't "Just" do a spot repair and change just the contacts in the starter solenoid, even if that's all there is wrong. If the starter motor fails next, they'd have to replace it for free. So they always have to install a complete "Genuine Toyota Remanufactured Starter" that costs three times as much as it should.
A good starter shop can go through the starter for about $50 - $75, change all the wear items and give it back ready for another 100,000 miles of average use. And on most cars the starters are easy enough to get out and in yourself, or an independent mechanic can do it for a reasonable price.
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Unfortunately, this seems to be the case almost everywhere. Since I was working for a parts distributor, I know who to have work on my cars! The local Meineke has some really good guys working there, so I usually go there if it's something over my head, or to have the struts replaced. There is also a local tire shop that has a couple of really good mechanics, and one of the two best alingment guys I have ever seen.
Well I knew about Sears and wouldn't go there if they were the last mechanics in the world. They have a horrible reputation.
But with Midas here, they have a $58 card you can buy for 4 oil changes. I may just use them for that, as long as they won't sabotage my car or anything. Can I trust them THAT far?
Great.
They seem to have scammed me a little too. I went in there to get the brakes checked. Some other mechanic about a year ago, said that I needed brakes in about a year and that the drums would have to be replaced, couldn't be turned anymore. So I needed a battery anyway and went in to Midas to see what they could do, and maybe look at the brakes too. They had a heavy duty battery for about $78, which was ok, and checked the brakes. They actually told me that I don't need them for maybe another year now. I don't drive that much. And they said the drums are ok, which made it look like the other guy "saw a woman coming" and may have been trying to scam me.
So they said the rear brakes needed adjusting, so how about that and the battery? Sure. My mistake was not asking how much to adjust the brakes. I figured, what could it be? $20? A 10 minute job? NO, the bill for the battery and brakes came to $169 with tax! Ahhhh!
Fool me once it's your fault, fool me twice it's my fault though.
Jeez.
Yep, probably in most states.
Should have been done 20 years ago!
Argh.
I guess, but I haven't been able to afford them in years anyway.
Thanks for that advice.
What's the best way to find myself a good reliable honest mechanic ( oxymoron? ) that won't charge me too much, here in my neighborhood?
Probably - "Trust, but Verify." Most shops know better than to try outright sabotage, since they never really know that you aren't a BAR Inspector doing a "Secret Shopper" test on them....
But they might try to instill a little FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) to get you to do work that really isn't called for yet - witness the "your rear brakes are almost due..." claim you got last year - they were trying to inculcate just enough FUD in you to get you to say "Okay, they're close, do them now."
The best way to prevent yourself from being ripped off is to learn a little about how your car works. You don't have to become an NIASE Certified Mechanic yourself, but getting a basic knowledge of the systems is a good thing. Many community colleges and high schools have short 10-week evening courses on exactly this subject.
That way when they say "Your Brake Rotors are worn out" you know the right questions to ask, and can gauge whether the response is real or Bullshit. (If they start rattling off stories about fictional things being the cause like "bad muffler bearings", you can call them on it right there. There are rubber strap hangers, but no "bearings".)
Why are they bad? Too worn? Warped? Hot Spots? Cracked? Show me how they are too worn with the measuring caliper, then show me the minimum thickness marking on the hub...
Ask neighbors with lots of cars. Ask your local Auto Club branch office, the Auto Club of So. Cal. has a referral program for Certified Repair Shops, and I suppose most do.
Call your state auto repair licensing, City/County business license departments, local Police or Sheriffs - lots of complaints on file is a bad sign.
Ask at the local Chamber of Commerce and BBB - Good shops will be in good standing, bad shops...
DO NOT rely on claims that can't be independently verified, or the mechanic sending you to get referrals from people who might be shilling for the mechanic. Bunco artists still catch people by having them call "Their Bank" to verify funds in the account - but the number he gave you is his girlfriend in an apartment across town, with a tape recording of office background noises to fool you.
One other thing I've seen used: Just because the owner claims to be a "Good Christian" and prints the 'sign of the fish' and a Cross on the work orders doesn't necessarily mean it's true...
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Good idea. I know the very basics now but not too much.
LOL!
I used to work with an ex-navy guy who told me about when he first went aboard a ship and they sent him looking all over for "relative bearing grease" to grease the relative bearings.
I have an ASET ( Associate in Science in Electronics Technology ) so I'm not a rote beginner with mechanical things. :)
:)
I hate BBB and consider them next to useless. Seen too many bad characters stay members.
Reminds me of an AC problem I had years ago. Wasn't cooling. Cooled less and less and then none. Kmart auto dept said I needed a new AC compressor, $800. I went down the street to a private mechanic who said I just needed gas, $60, put some in, and the AC worked for 2 more years until I finally sold the car.
That's usually the first sign that I should flee!
Sincere people don't have to abuse Jesus to get business.
In the paper mills it's a Bucket Of Steam, and in the Hospitals it's a Fallopian Tube...!
Hmmm....me too. But when I got mine, it was in Analog circuitry. Digital was just starting to come on; I studied it but analog was my thing. (if the number 7400 means anything to you! ;)
You'd be amazed at how many places hired me BECAUSE I knew Analog better than Digital!
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