Are Japanese cars really more reliable? Latest Consumer Reports info

Now we know what our friend dizzy AKA Idiot, Troll, Moron, Stupid, Dumbass, Dumbshit, Engineer and pathological liar is doing on line when not talking stupid in the NGs LOL

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter
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J D Powers long term survey is at five years. They also do a three year study because that is when the average new vehicle buyer begins trading their vehicle on a new vehicle. I D Powers customers are the manufactures and the industry in general, not the general public. They are geared to getting as many models as possible to be on a 'GOOD' report of some sort for advertising purposes. The last study they do in at five years because the average new car buyer has replaced their vehicles and it gives Powers a final review of ownership for the manufactures to tout.

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

How did you like that two seater T-Bird? I almost bought one when they first came on the market. My dealer ordered a black as his first new Bird. I changed my mind and bought another Mustang GT convert because I did not like not having a back seat.

I own a half dozen old collector cars but I run two vehicles and have been replacing one vehicle every year. Selling or at times trading, my two year old vehicle. I spend less money doing so then keeping them longer. I can buy a new GT convertible for about $2,000 to $2,500 per year. Not bad when you considers a new one goes up $1,000 or more in two years. That is less than it costs per year to keep them long term. The luxury cars I have now I have been replacing for three or four thousand per year. I don't spend a dime except for fuel, the FLM dealer gives me free scheduled maintenance and free annual state inspections.

Those in this NG, who seem to be mostly guys that keep cars till they die or buy used, like to point to Toyota resale value.. I have tracked the resale value of the Solara convertible oven the years and the Mustang GT returns a far better percentage of the original sale price than has the Solara, over the same time period. I owed a half dozen Lexus LS V8s but the cars I buy now are much less expensive to replace every two years, as well.

When I was buying a Lexus every two years I was laying out up to 20K. The last time the Toyota dealer wanted 25K and my '97 for a '99. I ended up buying my first Lincoln LS V8, a then new 2000 model AND a current model

1999 Mustang GT convertible for 30K, from a For LM dealer next door.. I have not purchased a foreign car since. ;)

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Did you feel that way a few years ago when Toyota models were topping their survey charts? LOL

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

It depends on how one defines "truck." If you are talking about a vehicle with an open cargo area in the back, the Cadillac Escalade EXT and Lincoln Mark LT may qualify as a "trucks." If you consider a body-on-frame vehicle that is built on a truck chassis, then the GX 470, LX 470, Lincoln Navigator, and Cadillac Escalade may qualify as trucks.

Most of the dependability surveys I've seen have indicated that trucks are generally more reliable than cars.

Reply to
Ray O

I supose that is why Toyota trucks are an also-ran when it comes to the list of the best selling trucks ;)

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

mercedes is no longer reliable.. figures, after chrysler took them over

what happened to bmw's rep?

Reply to
OMAbramo

Buick Rendezvous Buick Rainier Mercury Mountaineer Mercury Mariner Lincoln Navigator Lincoln LT Lexus RX Lexus LX Lexus GX Cadillac Escalade Cadillac ESV Cadillac EXT

You might not call them trucks, put that is how they are clssified (The Cadillac EXT and Lincoln LT are most definitely trucks - stupid trucks, but trucks for sure).

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

There are a funny car. A Ford dealer bought mine. Apparently they have a very narrow audience. The Ford desler nearest my home always has a couple of used ones on the lot, and they are constantly turning them over, so there is a market. However, the prices are not as good now as they were two years ago. I think the used car prices peaked near the end of production. Right now there are a lot of lease returns and rental cars on the market and the prices are definitely down. I loved the car, but it is not practical as an only car. I live in an apartment and got tired of having to use four parking spaces (I have a farm truck and my son has a car also), so I decided the Thunderbird needed to go. The car never gave me any problems. My only compalint was that it needed about two more inches of headroom.

................................

But the difference between top of the list and average is trivial. If that is your main reason for buying a Toyota, it is a pretty thin one.

I have a 17 year old son - my biggest automotive expense is insurance! I spend more on insurance per month than I've spent on repairs in the last five years combined.

Hmmm...I assume you change the oil regularly right? That is about all I do.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

Well nobody at Chrysler thinks they took over Diamler. A Mercedes might not be as reliable as a Camry, but if you gave me my choice for free, I know which one I'd take.

Germans are more interested in performance than reliability. And, at least in Germany, there are very few 8+ year old cars. The German inspection requirements make keeping older cars ridiculously expensive. So, when you combine a desire for maximum performance and a culture that doesn't understand that some people keep cars for 15 years, you get cars that do poorly in releiability ratings but are great to drive. Plus BMWs are hideously complicated (I might even say over-engineered).

When you combine a culture where they can't even drive the cars they build, with a relentless drive to meet specifications (no matter how inane), you end up with dull uninteresting cars that last a long time - even if you wish they'd die becasue they are so painfully boring - i.e. -you get a Toyota.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

No I shouldn't say that, because that's not what it is. There's no opinion factor involved. Surveys are sent out to Consumer Reports subscribers asking questions about what specific repairs were made, how much they cost, how many miles are on the vehicle, etc. CR collects the data and compares similar models with similar mileages and makes the comparison based on the numbers. There's no way for any opinion to affect the data, unless someone is falsifying the data.

It seems as though you think the surveys ask questions like, "In your personal opinion, are Toyota Corollas very reliable, reliable, unreliable or very unreliable?" If it did, then it would be the opinion of CR subscribers, just as any opinion poll (such as the one you mentioned about the president's approval rating) is, and completely worthless.

Reply to
That Guy

Time he learned about public transit.

Reply to
sharx35

Yeah, and it should be obvious. Home users aren't buying 750GB hard drives just so they can install Quicken and Excel.

Reply to
That Guy

All true. The CR surveys are the most useful part of the magazine, because they are based on a huge sample size. They're not asking people what they think about a particular product, they are gathering information of the persons personal experience with the product.

I always find it interesting when their recommendations of new products don't end up jiving with their survey results a few years down the road.

Reply to
SMS

Well, it's not just that it isn't as reliable, but that the Camry is near or at the top and the Mercedes is near or at the bottom. If I was asked which one I wanted to DRIVE, I'd choose the Mercedes, but if I was given one for free, I'd take the Camry because I'd still be driving it long after the Merc has cost you more in repairs than it would have cost to buy it new. Don't get me wrong, I am an absolute fan of Daimler-Benz, they made the best, most reliable and most technologically advanced cars affordable by the general public for decades. They poineered many important engineering milestones including the very first gas-powered automobile. But now they're pretty troublesome according to this data, and I'm not talking "average", for example in the roadster category of autos, The Mercedes-Benz SL is 120% worse than average. It was off the scale and CR had to use a broken bar with a digital representation. In coupes and convertables, the SLK was 110% worse than average.

In the luxury car line, four of the bottom five places were taken by Mercedes, with the percentage of worse-than-average reliability:

Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedan (V6, 2006) (About -65%) (not off the scale, graphic bar only so this is a visual estimate.) Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedan (V8, 2006) (-159%) Mercedes-Benz CLS* (-163%) Mercedes-Benz S-Class (2006) (-176%) Cadillac STS (V8) (-189%)

In midsized SUVs, Mercedes takes three of the bottom five positions:

Mercedes-Benz R-Class* (-129%) Cadillac SRX (V8) (-152%) Mercedes-Benz M-Class (V6)* (-153%) Land Rover LR3 (V8) (-155%) Mercedes-Benz M-Class (V8)* (-202%)

They've changed rather suddenly then. German cars used to be the most reliable, up and into the 1970s. Even the old Volkswagen beetles were pretty reliable compared to others in their price range.

CR data only goes back 10 years, so it shouldn't be all that much of a factor. Even a few years ago when they only went back seven years, Mercedes was at or near the bottom in reliability.

True, but Mercedes cars aren't made by the German culture, they're made by an international company that just happens to be based in Germany. Any idiot in management can clearly see that the Japanese are wiping the floor with the Germans in car sales, and it sure isn't because they perform so well. The Japanese cars' only really outstanding quality is their reliability.

You apparently don't know this, but if you get bored with your car you can sell it and buy a new one. Japanese cars, by the way, have the highest resale value.

By the way, the Honda Fit outhandles just about every car on the road, and almost bested the Ferrari F430 Spyder F1 in Road and Track's lane change.:

"the Fit that ran away with our econocar comparo last year ["Cheap Skates," C/D, May 2006] posted a lane-change [measurement of handling ability] number - 71.4 mph - that edges the best run by the Ferrari F430 Spider F1 we tested last June ["Divine Wind"]."

(Let's see a sub-$16,000 German car match that!)

So maybe the Japanese cars aren't so boring after all...

Reply to
That Guy

You forgot to say " in your opinion ".

Reply to
Mike

You forgot to say " in your opinion ".

Reply to
Mike

Agreed! You have to read *why* they recommend something before you consider their recommendation, because you may not be looking for the same qualities in a product that they are, and you may not use the product the way they tested it. CR recommendations are worthless unless you have a full understanding of where they're coming from. You have to read them like movie reviews.

As some movie reviewer (possibly Ebert) once said, (paraphrased) "A movie reviewer has to tell you whether or not he liked the movie, but that's not what you need to know. You need to know whether or not *you'll* like the movie. A *good* review will tell you that."

Reply to
That Guy

Then why have readers reported poor reliability with some models that were highly rated by CR, such as the VW Passat, or were rated high for owner satisfaction by the very same readers who reported poor reliability?

I find it hard to believe that Ford owners are fussier than Toyota owners. Kia owners must be absolute perfectionists.

It means they apply the usual statistical corrections, such as for vehicle mileage and age. Again, if they were trying to rig the reliability numbers in favor of their highest-rated cars, there wouldn't be so many BMWs and Mercedes among the most troublesome vehicles.

different rating for

CR said 5-year-old Buicks averaged about 50-75 defects per 100 cars (ranked 10 out of 31 brands), Pontiacs 80-120 (ranked 27 out of 31). Generally, they've said that Buick reliability was good, and a year or two ago one Buick model topped CR's list for fewest problems in year-old cars.

Reply to
larry moe 'n curly

You seem to be obsessed with hill-climbing power because this is about the fifth time I've seen you mention it in the past few months.

"What do you think of your new plasma TV, Mike?"

"The picture's great, but it doesn't have enough power for climbing hills."

Reply to
larry moe 'n curly

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