battery testing

Just want other opinions about battery testing. I've got a cheap battery (warranteed for 2 years and is almost 2 years old in age) in a ' 92 Corolla and on some of the cold mornings now, the car almost didn't turn over on the first try (not normal) but did on second try. My wife and I concluded it was most likely the battery. Of course when I took it to Autozone, they said it tested ok (so no trade in value for it) but I decided to replace it since it was near end of its life and it was getting into winter weather. Last time I suspected battery with similar symptons, I was right. The only other thought now is if it's not battery, maybe the starter. Sympton was one first try, when you turn the key, no engine sound but on second try, all is normal. This happened so far maybe 3 times this week (this week was our first cold mornings about 45 degrees F ) and car sitting for about 11 hours outside. Car is otherwise in very good shape and very dependable. I'm looking forward to this week in the morning to see if all is well or not.

How reliable have you found these auto part stores battery tests?

Reply to
Rob
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If you have a 24 months battery and you are within a few weeks of 24 months, then it's an excellent bet taht the battrery is toast. Don't waste your time diagnosing it. It's dead. You have the absolute cheapest battery -- 24 month life -- that can be found. Even if it had a pro-ration, it would only be a couple of bucks. Save you and your wife the aggravation and hassle of being stuck somewhere, and get a new battery.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

If they put a load on the battery or used a Sun VAT 40 or something similar, the test is pretty good. If they just used a volt meter, the test is not so meaningful.

Reply to
Ray O

Rob, I'm getting two different symptoms from you...first one you say (engine) "almost didn't turn over" then you say, on first try "no engine sound" but "normal start on second try".

This makes me think that the engine did 'turn over' but very slowly. then you say 'no engine sound'...hummm

So, we need some clarification. A common fault is to hear just a click and have the engine not turn over at all, then on subsequent attempts work fine... This is usually caused by poor contacts in the starter relay...while very slow cranking is usually indicative of a battery problem.

So wanna make another attempt to explain it?...listen closely to see if you hear a click when you attempt a start it. Quite important.

Reply to
Gord Beaman

I hate to harp on this point, but he has a battery that is tagged as having a 24 month service life, and he admits to having it for very nearly 24 months.

I have no clue how they get the life nailed down, but I swear that I had 36 month batteries in my motorhome, and they started to crank slow at 34 months, and refused to take a charge at 38 months.

This guy is at the slow crank stage, complete failure is just around the corner.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

You're right. I should leave out the word "almost" but keep in mind this happened perhaps about every 2nd day or so for the first week.

I chose to replace the battery regardless whether it or the starter was the problem because it was rated a 24 month battery whose age was about 22 months old and we are getting into winter months now. If I'm wrong, I'll probably end up replacing the starter but I don't regret replacing the battery.

thanks

Reply to
Rob

"Jeff Strickland" wrote: snip

I would agree with you if he 'is' cranking slow but I'm not convinced that he is...mind you I do agree that with winter coming on a new battery is likely a good idea but I suspect that he has additional troubles there...

Reply to
Gord Beaman

I agree. I think the odds favor you having an old battery, and the starter should be fine. All of the electrics on the car should be okay, yoiur battery is toast. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking with it.

NOTE You might get a few more weeks of service by taking the battery terminals off and cleaning them so they are shiny then putting them back together. They make a special brush for this job, it cleans the battery posts and the inside of the cable terminals. You can accomplish the task with a pocketknife if you want.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

Now put it on the calendar to top off the battery with distilled water every four to six months, and you'll get some extra life out of this battery before you get the first 'slow crank' warning. You might have to slit the top sticker on the battery and/or pry out the cell top caps with a small screwdriver, but you /can/ get in.

(Wear gloves and splash goggles, of course, and have lots of baking soda and fresh running water readily available. Because car batteries go BOOM! in your face on rare occasions, and most people consider two working eyeballs as an important part of their life....)

"Maintenance Free" is just one of those lies that makes a 24-month battery only last 24 months. They use less water, but not zero.

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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

Yeah, I learned that maintenance free isn't some time ago. I also didn't realize that distilled water is still the way to go. I remember doing that in the 70's but thought now it wasn't that important so I just used tap water. Back then, I had a filter on top of a container to make distilled water. Not sure how to get distilled water now. Is it still a DIY job with a filter/container or do you have to buy distilled water and where if so?

Reply to
Rob

Thanks Jeff. I just replaced the battery Saturday and so far not one problem and probably started it about 8 times or more since then. I'll wait till say Friday before I'm confident it's okay (being conservative).

Reply to
Rob

Those filter kits for drinking water do not make distilled water. To distill a liquid is to heat it until it evaporates and the trapping the vapor so it condenses back to liquid form. Distilling water gets rid of minerals in the water. It is the minerals in the water that is harmful to your battery and clog up steam irons.

You can purchase distilled water at a grocery store.

Reply to
Ray O

You have to use distilled - doesn't take much before the calcium and sodium and other metallic ions wreak havoc with the chemistry in a lead-acid battery. Those filter tops are junk - the theory is sound if it does a double ion exchange to trap the minerals in the water, they build permanent water filtration installations like that for critical uses like kidney dialysis clinics and they work fine.

But if those little dime-store bottle-top devices do even work it's for maybe 10 gallons before it is spent and should be discarded. And there's no way to tell how they are working short of expensive electronic monitors or sending samples to a laboratory. I don't trust them, especially when distilled water is available at the grocery store for pennies a gallon. About the same price as the generic drinking water.

I have one job with two sets of solar cells and 4 golf cart DC batteries, running the two 12V 20W monument sign lights at the 'back' entrance. I go through about a gallon of distilled water in their batteries each visit. I stash a few extra gallons of water and the battery filler bottle inside the cabinets.

(Note: When planning a Condo community development, place power sources for outside lighting, and conduits crossing under the streets during the development phase. Afterwards, its very expensive. Makes solar cells and added maintenance cheaper than major construction.)

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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

Thanks for the info.

Reply to
Rob

Trust me. You're in good shape with the new battery.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

I'm not sure that I'd suggest that somebody attempt to pry the top off of a battery. I've seen a few where the top comes off with a moderate amount of muscle applied to an unwilling cover, but most "maintenance free" batteries actually are maintenance free.

My suggestion is to CAREFULLY -- taking particular care on the FULLY part -- inspect the battery to find out if the top can come off. If you can't get it off with a screwdriver, then it won't come off. Personally, I would buy a battery from a place where they will provide the services described if the service can even be performed.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

You're welcome!

Reply to
Ray O

Now for an update:

Apparently those tests aren't too good even tho it looked like heavy duty equipment to test them. I feel fairly confident now (about 1 week later) in saying it was the battery because after about 18 starts or more (at least 6 or more with 12 hours between starts) not once has the car acted up as before.

Lesson to be learned trust your past experiences and gut instinct and not necessarily their equipment . Now just a quick thought (not sure if this applies in my case but...) came to my mind, if they test it as good, they don't have to prorate the battery so that saves them money.... do I smell a conflict of interest here???

And thanks to all who replied.

Reply to
Rob

** UPDATE 2 **

Just to complicate this a bit further, about 4 days ago the car was acting up again after working fine for 1 to 2 weeks, similar to earlier symptons so I decided to have my mechanic look at it. He said it was the loose positive battery terminal (I told him it was not tight). He further told me all relays were good, starter was fine and alternator was fine. So far including 2 early morning (cold below 40 F at least for south texas) starts, it kicked off on first try. So maybe old battery was okay but I don't regret changing it still. It was at its end of warranteed life and better I did it in warmer weather than cold weather if you know what I mean. I can remember when I lived in NY (in my younger days) and having to do some maintenance on my car in the cold when my fingers were getting numb. Not a pleasant experience.

Reply to
Rob

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