Brake pads

You left out the company that won't honor the lifetime warranty.

As to ceramic versus semi-metalic, 10 years ago, I ran a set of ceramic pads at a premium price. the independent shop that special ordered the pads was unable to warranty them after 50k miles. These days I ask for the best pads from Kragen and call it good. Kragen enters the purchase in their computer, and so far, if the parts purchase is lifetime and in their computer, I've had no problem with a lifetime warranty.

This is not the deal you think. Lifetime struts are expensive to install. You pick your own example.

When designing a braking system, the designers have to consider several factors, many of which compromise others.

The main objective of the brakes is to turn kinetic energy into heat energy and then get rid of the heat.

Harder lining material usually has a longer life than softer material at the expense of shorter rotor/drum life.

Softer lining material tends to create more friction, which turns kinetic energy into heat energy, at the expense of shorter lining life.

A larger swept area for rotors/drums allows more heat dissipation at the expense of greater unsprung weight.

Metallic and ceramic lining material have a longer life and dissipate heat better at the expense of shorter rotor/drum life.

Harder rotor/drum material has a longer life than softer material at the expense of shorter lining life.

I would suspect that so-called "lifetime" brake pads are pretty hard and so rotor life will be shortened.

Ahh, but you missed the points - First, they get to charge you more for the "Premium" pads with the Lifetime Warranty. Then they bank on the car being sold before the pads wear out, or your losing the paperwork and forgetting that you have that warranty. If you never cash in, they win.

(And when I went back in to get my "Free" pads, they said the supplier has 'discontinued that warranty' - but you're a good customer so we'll give you a free set of regular pads on the house. Hmmm... Probably why I'll be wary of buying 'Lifetime' things there again.)

Then when you go back for the "free" pads they get to sell you other things like combi kits and slide rods, wheel hoses and new rotors. And if you had a shop install those "Lifetime" pads, note that besides the other parts needed the labor to change them is going to cost you at the usual rates.

TANSTAAFL - There ain't no such thing as a 'Free Lunch'.

They may be obscuring where they make their money on the deal, but if they weren't coming out ahead overall they wouldn't do it.

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Which is why I never go for aftermarket "lifetime" parts!

Of course. But, you get longer life brakes in the process.

Why would you hesitate on an offer like that, ESPECIALLY when the parts store honors the original warranty? You get two sets of pads for the price of one. I can't imagine a better deal that that. Well, three for the price of one would be better, but sometimes life just sucks.

They only get to sell you that stuff if you need it.

I've not gotten the lifetime warranty for brake parts except for those parts that I install myself.

I'm now running the original ceramics that came with the car. They looked huge when I looked at them after looking at the 'lifetime' pads that were (worn) down to (almost) nothing. I had discarded the wear indicators when I installed them as they would not stay on.

I guess I should mic the rotors to see how I'm doing there. I didn't think of that.

I DID get a new set of pads under the warranty AND he told me to hang on to the original receipt as I can get as many sets as I can use (with this same car of course). The only problem is the receipt is going to be even more difficult to read in 3 MORE years. It's from '04...

They did have the same pads for replacement, they just came in a different box. And I don't think they offer the 'lifetime' thing with them anymore. I didn't pay any MORE to get the lifetime deal either...

When I use to by GM's, cars wouldn't last long enough for me to benefit on deals like this. I plan on keeping this 01 camry for a long time..

The younger guy at the PS did seem confused when I asked for a new set. I bet he'll be working somewhere else b4 he sees another claim..

CP

LOL! Usually, I'm buying those parts for one of my 'beaters', and I get the cheapest on the shelf, knowing I'll drive it anywhere from 10-30,000 miles and either give it away, sell it or send it to the Recyclers.

The only cars I have bought the Top Shelf stuff for recently were the Supra and the Tercel I had a couple years ago. I did hunt for the cheapest drums I could find ($35, the place I was working for, WITH my excellent Employee Discount, were $55!!!) and I drove it for 3 years. I'll tell you, it makes a BIG difference from the lowest priced stuff. For the Supra, there were 3 grades available, but I could only get the middle grade rotors. Actually, my former boss wouldn't sell me the cheap stuff, but I didn't want it anyway. I did use the premium pads for it, however. I used the lowest priced stuff I could for the Celica, and there is QUITE a noticable difference!

Funny thing with the Celica. I used the cheap Chinese rotors all the way around. When I bought the car, there was a shudder from the front, so I knew the rotors were shot. I replaced everything on the cheap, and about

5,000 miles later the shudder was back. Now, I ruined one of my knees doing that job (no lift, so I was scampering on the ground, and tore the cartilidge in my right knee) and did not want to do it again because my knee still hurt, so I let it go, and it went away! I think the rotors heated and warped, and then later heated again and corrected themselves...somehow.

I just take a wrench of the minimum thickness allowed by spec. If it doesn't slide over the rotor, it's good!

Except for the Mazda. Minimum thickness is 14mm, and a 14mm wrench JUST barely fit over one. However, with the pads loaded in the calipers, and the 'puck' pushed back as FAR as it would go, I could JUST barely fit the calipers back onto the car! I don't think I'm in too much danger of popping a piston...

The difference between you and I is that I own cars that are worth having.

Sorry, you walked right into that one ...

HAY! All of my cars have served one purpose or another! The Celica was actually a very nice car for it's age, it looked good and ran well. If I hadn't bought the Supra I would have spent more time on it and restored it. It was a very good candidate for restoration!

My Hachiroku is...well...a Hachiroku!

My Supra is a very, very nice car.

The Tercel was a beater, but an AWD beater with an excellent engine and transmission, and NEVER got stuck no matter what the conditions. The other '95 Tercel was a Gem, and I regret ever selling it, except that I used the $$$ to buy and repair the Supra. My LHS I am even a bit sorrier I let go, it was a Georgia car and was immaculate! It got almost as good fuel economy as the Scion, and was extremely comfortable. And, it handled almost as well as the Celica! I'm really kicking myself for trading it for $600...

And, I have the Mazda running very well. If the roof didn't have paint damage from sitting under pine trees it would look new. For $150 and $400 in parts I got a decent car...no rust or damage except the roof. No smoke, no oil leaks, no nothing. It just runs, and in all honesty is built (bodywise) as well as a Toyota! Very well made car, unlike my 240SX...

The van...hey, did I tell you about the LHS?

And the Scion? Wooooo-Hooooo!!! Except for the seating position, I love that car! Did I ever mention how fast it is? ;)

(BTW, I gave the van away today to someone who has a bunch of them and likes them. He's either going to use it for parts for his three others, or put an engine in it...)

snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (Charles Pisano) wrote in news:496-459064F2-1699 @storefull-3272.bay.webtv.net:

Toyota does not install ceramic pads. Your "original" pads are crap aftermarket.

Raybestos discontinued their lifetime replacement program a long time ago. Bendix only gives you one extra set when you regiester for their special program. But you pretty much have to buy each new set now.

I'd go with Akebono Proact Ceramic. These are good ceramic pads, the same brand Toyota uses on the Lexus line. For most of the Toy line, you get organic crap like NBK and who knows what these days.

Raybestos ceramics are good too, but they are dirtier than the akenobos (darker dust).

Charles Pisano wrote:

I bought "Raybestos Silver" pads and, later, shoes for a 1975 Corolla wagon from Western Auto sometime during the mid-1980's. Never bought another set of pads or shoes for the life of the car, which DW&I finally had to remove from the road in late '05 with 327,000++ on the clock. FWIW, I had identical experience with: Alternator (1988), water pump (1985), struts (1983), shock absorbers (1983), F/E alignment (1983), fuel pump (1995). I always make it a point to buy the highest quality (AWA the highest service grade) that I can find with a lifetime warranty and that labor is included for those items that require installation beyond my abilites. For example, shocks and struts started out as Sears' "Steadyrider" (Gabriel) product in 1983 and as Sears' product line upgraded over the years so did the replacements for my old Corolla so that now it's sitting out there in the yard with Monroe Sensatrac's all the way around. Please note that quality and lifetime warranty do not necessarily go together: For example, the lifetime warranty on a so-called "rebuilt" alternator from the homeowner DIY store don't mean squat if you're still changing out alternators every year-or-so, even if the replacements are "free", unless your time and knuckle-skin are of no value to you ;-) It is critical, too, that replacement parts absolutely must conform to OEM specs. For example, if metallic pads are not spec'd for a vehicle, they may not provide the best stopping power and/or service life on that vehicle and may actually contribute to accellerated rotor wear without actually being defective -- they're just the wrong part for the vehicle. FWIW, I also have noticed that some warranties now have been modified to specifically exclude normal wearout and cover *only* manufacturing defects.