I have another question and it concerns my brother-in-law's camry. He purchased it about a year ago from a friend and it came with a hodge-podge of tires.
About a year ago he went to a Toyota dealership in Chicago and on their recommendation bought 4 Yokohama Avid TRZ tires.
A few days ago, he ruined one of the tires in a minor stupid incident. Which lead to my questions:
(1) Although he bought these with a dealership's recommendation, some place is telling him that these tires are not strong enough for a heavy car like camry and he should buy 4 new ones. Is that true?
(2) Usually one buys new tires in pairs. But he is thinking that his 3 tires are only 1 year / 10K miles old, so maybe he can just buy one? Is that a good idea?
A year or so ago I bought four of these tires for my Camry after checking Consumer Reports. They were high on their charts. Right up there with Michelin and other high end tires but a much better price. They have done well on dry as well as wet pavement.
As long as you have the proper size for your Camry you should have no problem. I would only buy the one if it were me.
If the size and load rating are a match for his car, then they aren't "not strong enough" unless he is driving aggressively, with a heavy load, on the smallest size recommended for your car. As for replacing just one, I'd do it, but put the mismatched set on the rear - he'll be less likely to see alignment problems that way.
Thanks to all for your helpful advice and sharing your experiences. I just talked to my B-in-L and got more details from him.
The place that advised him against Yokohama Avid TRZ for Camry is just going by the book: They said Toyota recommends H-rated or higher tires for Camry, while Avid TRZ's s apparently are rated one step lower - T? I forget that alphabet soup.
But in real life people are using them successfully on Camry's, and he was himself! So based on his own experience if nothing else, he has decided to get just one tire.
I passed along the suggestion to put the new tire on a rear wheel.
How often does he go over 80 MPH? I doubt he's racing a Camry, and probably doesn't go too much faster than the speed limit for too long a period of time. (Unless he lives in Montana, is it? ;)
Here's not quite everything you need to know about tires, but a good deal of info:
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More interesting would be the load rating. If he's carrying a full carload of people like me, then he'd need a 'stronger' tire. The load rating on the sidewall will tell that story...
As for speed ratings, T is only good up to 118 MPH, anf H is only good up to 130 MPH. So, I guess as long as he keeps it under 120, he's OK...
Many tire retailers refuse to install tires that are rated below what the original tires on the vehicle were. So if Toyota originally included H rated tires on the Camry, even though T rated tires would have been fine, the retailer won't install T rated tires. Costco is one tire retailer that has this policy. I ran into the same problem, but the retailer never came up with an excuse like the car was too heavy, they just wouldn't install the lower rated tires.
Toyota may think that they're doing some good marketing by putting on tires that are higher rated than the car needs, but in fact they're making it more difficult for owners at tire replacement time.
Continuing with my B-in-L's camry. Thanks to your advice and his own experience he disregarded that well-meaning but way-off shop, and got himself a TRZ.
Another problem. His ABS light is on and Trac-Off is flashing...
After his accident his car was repaired at a small shop, with rebuilt parts (other driver uninsured, he had to pay from his own pocket). That mechanic is non-chalant and says, don't worry, your brakes work fine (although not sure if ABS works).
The manual says to take the car to "your Toyota dealer right away".
So, what's the scoop on ABS. Can only Toyota dealers fix ABC or can it be done at smaller shops, car-x, etc?
The only difference between the T-rated and Z-rated are the sustained maximum speed ratings. As long as it meets the load rating requirements of the car, that shouldn't be a concern at normal de-facto freeway speeds of 75 MPH max. But as noted, some tire shops refuse to put a lower speed-rated tire on, under the theory that the car /can/ go that fast - even if it never will.
IIRC, T-rated is 112 MPH sustained, Z is 149 MPH and up - and there aren't any US Speed limits over 80 MPH (Except Montana's "Safe for conditions" during daylight hours).
Most people run out of nerve after getting into the low triple digits, because you can come up on slower traffic doing 55 in all lanes, oncoming traffic on the other side of the yellow lines, and get yourself in huge trouble....
Questions: Does the Camry have a Temporary Spare or a real spare? (If real:) On a matching alloy rim or a mismatch plain steel? And what condition is the spare tire in?
If the spare tire matches the other three on the road, use the spare, and buy something used and the right size for the spare. Buying one new matching tire should be no problem - the only thing you want to avoid is putting two tires that don't match in both rolling diameter and wear level on the drive axle. The diameter mis-match between a new and severely worn tire (or worse, two different sizes) causes the spider gears in the differential to constantly rotate at a slow speed like the car is forever turning a corner, and it might wear out faster than the rest of the car.
(Normally the differential gearset is a lifetime item, 500K miles or better. You might wear it out in 250K with a constant mismatch.)
Put the mis-matched tires on the back axle on a FWD (or front on a RWD) where they are spinning plain bearings and size doesn't matter.
If you can't find an exact match tire and the shop insists on selling in pairs, buy two new and put one on the spare, and put the spare into the rotation. Or find another tire shop that wants to sell you one tire rather than zero tires - much more profitable when you explain it to them that way.
If the car has alloy rims, always be on the lookout to pickup one or two extra used rims, and then you can put the 'extra' tire into the rotation and leave the Temporary Spare in the storage well...
If you are not in a rush you can find the alloy rims cheap, either at a wrecking yard or as "take-offs" at one of your local tire dealers or the Toyota Dealer (if one of the mechanics doesn't grab them first...) If you bend a rim and need to get a replacement Right NOW they tend to be a whole lot more expensive.
Thanks. The spare is a full size spare. When he got the car from a friend it had quite a hodge podge of tires. He kep the best one for spare and got 4 TRZ's for the car, one of which needed replacing. Actually, he just replaced it this afternoon.
His latest worry is the ABS light. I have another post about it. Thanks for your help again.
About your suggestion to buy spare rims when one can, my worry is, what if don't need one (I have had many cars where wheel never needed changing) and my next car uses different size?
: The Brakes are fine, the ABS does not work. : : The body shop body shop can't fix it, but any good mechanic should be able : to sort this out for you. : : WHEN does the light come on? : : The light should come on with Ignition ON, complete a self-test cycle and go : out. WATCH VERY CLOSELY, it should go out but then come back on : immediately -- this indicates a problem with the valve body, and is : expensive to replace. If the light goes out and remains out until the car : starts moving, this indicates a failure of a wheel speed sensor, which also : plays into the Traction Control error you are reporting. The speed sensor : are cheaper than the valve body.
Thanks, I'll ask him to take a test drive or check myself precisely what happens.
Just for my curiosity, and not related to this particular case, is ABS light related only to the front brakes (because camry is fwd) or could be front or rear?
When you don't really need the rims someone sees your car and mentions they have a set of four rims they took off to install fancier rims on their car, $25 bucks and they're yours - with decent tires on them too... If a deal like that comes your way, grab it - if nothing else, you can run the rest of the tread life off the tires, and that alone is worth $25.
If you never need the rims, toss them in when you sell the car. Things like lots of useful spare parts and a Factory Repair Manual are a heck of a selling feature when you finally trade up, and will get you top dollar.
When you DO need one you can't find a deal anywhere on used rims, and the dealer wants $350 each for new ones. And you get a junkyard owner that smells desperation and wants $200 each.
And this will only get worse in the future when all cars come with tire pressure monitoring systems standard. Then you have to buy the rim and the TPMS transmitter that matches...
The Avids seem to have decent reviews, even though they're generally considered cheap tires. I only go for Michelins myself. 4 cyl should be fine with T rating, with H optional. I think the 6 cyl comes with H rating.
Dirty sensor (metal shavings on magnetic wheel sensor), bad connection, or disconnected/bad wires can cause this. Or the ABS modulator is bad, but this is costly and rare. If the car had a recent accident/work, then check the sensor connctions and wheel servo ring first.
Some clarifications on some other responses to this post:
As far as I know, all Toyotas use 4 channel ABS, which means that the ABS actuator controls each wheel independently of the others.
The brakes should work like a vehicle without ABS, and the traction control is disabled.
Is the Trac-off light flashing or is it just illuminated?
If both the ABS light and/or the Trac-Off light are illuminated, the easy way to diagnose it is to pull the trouble codes.
If the light came on right after an accident and the car was replaced with used parts, it is possible that the incorrect part was used and so the ABS/Traction control computer thinks the part is bad since there is no signal from it. Another possibility is that the connector for the ABS sensor was not installed. A peek behind the wheel can verify whether the part is there and is connected.
The small shop that did the incomplete repair is not the place to take it for further diagnosis. I doubt if a place like Car-X would use genuine parts, so my preference for something like this would be the dealer if I couldn't diagnose or repair it myself.
I managed to break the belts in my "S" (precursor to "T", I guess) rated Michelins on my '86 Civic Si - by going 125mph downhill. As long as he stays away from those long 140 mph downhills he should be ok. ;-)
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